Brexit

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Re: Brexit

Postby Gusto10 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:50 am

SkirtsDad wrote:
skirtyscot wrote:
Gusto10 wrote:but still the question remains May it or May it not happen, all we now know is the May wouldn't fall during April. May has a hell of a job trying to get all wishes fulfilled for which she needs i.m.o. much respect.

She has spent the entire time ignoring everybody except the ERG.

Respect? Hahahahahahahaha no.


My sentiment exactly. She is nothing short of a belligerent, sanctimonious xenophobe, obsessed with imigration since her time at the homeoffice (if not before), and whose only interest, it would seem, is implimenting what she wants, regardless of concequences. The red lines that she has draw for Brexit are entirely her own doing and were not based on any cross-party concensus or even talking to her own people. Her idea of compromise, as even her own ministers have commented, is getting others to do what she wants, and if she can't she tries any unscupulous means to achieve it including bribary (DUP), trying to break the law (See Gina Miller court case) and threats (no deal/general election/no brexit) etc.

When it comes to her dislike of 'foreigners' just take a look at the Windrush Scandal where they deported people who have legitimately lived in the UK for over 40 years. This government goes after people who are legitimately here as presumably they make easier targets than chasing after people that are not in the system and who therefore can't be traced. In one instance, they tried to deport a friend of mine based on the idea that he was in a marriage of convenience (for 14 years and with a kid????) and that he'd married a Bulgarian so he could stay in Europe..... slight problem.... they overlook that when they got married Bulgaria was not even in the EU. After months of stress and meetings with lawyers it finally went to court..... the government didn't even turn up.... they were never going to win, but it didn't stop them wasting 10s of thousands of pounds of tax payers money.


Governments screwing their constituents is happening all over the place. In the mean time I have gained quit some experience in the field and am quit capable of giving the civil servants something to do for the tax money I pay. Such included a go at the supreme/high court with succes. They seem to have forgotten that they should talk the talk of the ones who pay them, being the constituent.

But it's not only your PM, but also Brussels playing tough. They will do all to penalise the UK for leaving and that might be the source of the red lines mentioned. And don't forget, when the camera's are rolling, the momentum between the actors will be totally different from what is going on behind the scenes/out of sight. No business like show business.

Something that happens most times out of sight of the general public, is that the civil servants draw up a letter with point of interest and plans for the coming years prior to the elections. Each political party take therefrom what they want to "preach". Hence the continuity in the way you are governed.

And may I point out, that the alternative plan presented twice by Corbyn in Brussels has not been incorporated at all?
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Re: Brexit

Postby Ray » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:22 am

What I find amazing about all of this is that few really cared about the EU prior to the calling of the referendum on the subject. That was early 2016. Now we are a divided nation, leaderless to boot.
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Re: Brexit

Postby SkirtsDad » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:58 pm

Gusto10 wrote:But it's not only your PM, but also Brussels playing tough. They will do all to penalise the UK for leaving and that might be the source of the red lines mentioned.......

And may I point out, that the alternative plan presented twice by Corbyn in Brussels has not been incorporated at all?


Perhaps you can clarify what you mean by "playing tough", since I do not see the intransigence of TM driven by her obsession as in any way tough. Would you also point out where you see the EU trying to penalise the UK? Leaving is simply a process that has to be gone through to tie up loose ends, such as how much we owe given that we committed to pay and now want to leave early... just in the same way that there are usually costs associated with leaving a morgage or rental agreement early, for instance. The conditions for leaving were set out when we joined, so how can the EU be "playing tough" by simply expecting the UK to honour the terms that we signed up to?

Sorry, but I am confused by your last point. Please would you explain.
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Re: Brexit

Postby Sinned » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:35 am

SD, the problem with honouring the exit terms set out when we joined is that the European entity that exists now is a completely different beast that the one we joined. I don't have any experience to know whether the subsequent various treaties that were signed since to result in the current invocation of Europe ( version 4.0.1? ) updated the exit terms from what was in the original treaty. Maybe, maybe not? Was it even posited since that any member country [0] would want to leave?

[0] I refuse to use the term "state".
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Brexit

Postby SkirtsDad » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:15 pm

Sinned wrote:SD, the problem with honouring the exit terms set out when we joined is that the European entity that exists now is a completely different beast that the one we joined. I don't have any experience to know whether the subsequent various treaties that were signed since to result in the current invocation of Europe ( version 4.0.1? ) updated the exit terms from what was in the original treaty. Maybe, maybe not? Was it even posited since that any member country would want to leave?


I really don't see the relevance of how terms might have been when we joined. The exit terms as they exist today were know when the referendum was called. The British can hardly call foul when they draughted Article 50 in the first place. The Good Friday agreement, and the constraints that it brings was also known about.

Where were people informed that the leaving process would take years and that the way we leave is very limited, for good reason? Was No Deal ever a possibility? To abandon any form of customs union essencially tears up the Good Friday agreement that brought an end to decades of hostility and revenge killings. It not only affected Northern Ireland, but the UK mainland too. It is worth remembering that Northern Ireland voted remain, so did Wales, so did Scotland, and so did Gibraltar. The only country to vote leave, by just a small majority, was England, yet they are dragging the other countries out with them.
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