Musings on the Political Discussion in "Wearing a Dress ...

[pelmut]

...I like the flag and enjoy watching the symbol of the nation flapping in the breeze.

I think the UK is the nation that is doing the most flapping in the breeze at the moment...

[Ralph]

I saw a picture of a cat the other day with a question over its head: "Cat, what is your advice regarding Brexit?"
Underneath was the cat's response: "You should repeatedly demand to go out, then when the door is opened just sit there and stare at it. That's what I would do."

Yup, sounds about right

[Dottie]

Having fought for my country and my predecessors too have fought for my countrymen's freedom .
The freedom of expression , of speech, of behavior and yes that does include the burning of a national symbol or flag along with wearing a skirt or changing the colour of your hair.
As Fred in skirts posted ; "FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA insert your own country here " is a symbol of our once great nation and nothing more.
I stand with Fred.

I have always wondered if there was a market for flags of various nationalitys made from readily combustible fabric

[Sinned]

Something that I haven't seen with the US flag that happens with out Union Flag is that often the colours of the flag are changed. For example to shades of grey [0] or shades of blue. The pattern of the diagonal, horizontal and vertical stripes and their relationship with the background thus becomes the symbol rather than the exact colours of blue, red and white. We don't find that offensive and have a measure of affection, perhaps, or tolerance for it but I suspect that if you changed the colours of the US flag to various shades of grey or blue in the same way then you would find that offensive. If so, then I would find that very strange and worrying that you wouldn't have that sense of humour ( ? ) or tolerance that we have and have invested maybe far too much emotion into the flag itself. Just sayin'.

[0] Google it for examples.

Yes, Carl, your example of the 80's with Blair/Brown and all that has illustrated the example of the lack of power of the Monarchy although it does seem that our Queen and Charles did try and influence things, without general success it seems, but perhaps things could have been a lot worse without that influence. But influence and power are completely different animals. I will admit that QE has been an excellent Monarch and her example has put that of our politicians to shame, although the rest of her family haven't lived up to her example.

[oldsalt1]

Flags are just symbols and are made of cloth paper or many other types of materials. They are nothing more or less than that. Yes our flag has plenty of history attached to it. It is carried in war and peace to represent the country, as are all flags. Watch the Olympics sometime and see all of the nations and see all of the flags in the stands where the citizens of the participating nations are waving them. Flags represent the national pride each citizen has for his or her country.

If Flags represent the national pride each citizen has for his or her country, And you have no pride in the flag , does that mean you have no pride in your nation. Your quote not mine.

[moonshadow]

I saw a picture of a cat the other day with a question over its head: "Cat, what is your advice regarding Brexit?"
Underneath was the cat's response: "You should repeatedly demand to go out, then when the door is opened just sit there and stare at it. That's what I would do."

Yup, sounds about right

I'm sorry, I've been avoiding this thread so as to not put my head on the chopping block again... but as a cat guy I greatly enjoyed this post.

While I'm at it...

but I suspect that if you changed the colours of the US flag to various shades of grey or blue in the same way then you would find that offensive.

As a matter of fact, such a flag does exist. It's the "blue lives matter flag" and is generally popular with folks on the "right".

Wanting to avoid yet another hot button topic, I close my thoughts on it here... but I just wanted to point out that such a flag does exist and are quite abundant in Appalachia and particularly among law enforcement officers, their families, and other sympathizers.

Back to you.... (I bow out quietly and resume my seat amongst the audience...)

[crfriend]

Something that I haven't seen with the US flag that happens with out Union Flag is that often the colours of the flag are changed.

There is one example that sticks in my mind, and I'm not sure what to make of it, nor do I know what it stands for. In this one, the Flag is reduced to black and white with one of the horizontal stripes in blue. Any ideas?

[The] example of the 80's with Blair/Brown and all that has illustrated the example of the lack of power of the Monarchy although it does seem that our Queen and Charles did try and influence things, without general success it seems, but perhaps things could have been a lot worse without that influence.

I was specifically thinking about Thatcher with those remarks. Face it, Thatcher was little more than Ronnie Reagan in drag, and I'm given to understand that Her Majesty The Queen was "less than enamoured" over what was going on in that government (and the lasting damage it did). Oh how I detested the '80s and the seemingly universal rise of the neocon [1][3].

But influence and power are completely different animals.

Indeed. Power can be exercised by fiat [2]; influence requires subtlety, nuance, and grace. Unfortunately, overt power frequently overshadows subtlety, nuance, and grace.


[1] "Neo-conservative". The outward politics of these types is violent, generally nasty, and completely lacking in tact. These types were the leading-edge of the wedge that's since dealt the death-blow to the Republic of the United States and gave rise to the Oligarchy that it now is.
[2] Witness the farce that the United States is undergoing now as a stellar example of raw power with no constraint.
[3] The UK received their share of it, and this was part of a general pattern of "hardening" that was pretty much worldwide. Simultaneously we saw the beginnings of the collapse of the Soviet Union into the modern Russian oligarchy, and western Europe saw the rise of an extremely hard-edged right-wing the likes it hadn't seen since the late 1930s. It was an altogether bad period of time for humanity. Sadly, we have not been able to reverse the trend.

[moonshadow]

There is one example that sticks in my mind, and I'm not sure what to make of it, nor do I know what it stands for. In this one, the Flag is reduced to black and white with one of the horizontal stripes in blue. Any ideas?

Is this what you're seeing (click for link)?

If so, that's the "Blue Lives Matter" flag. I'll leave the explanation for the flag up to wikipedia in this handy article.

[FranTastic444]

Just like you get with the Mini in the UK, quite common to see variations on the standard / official flag on Jeeps in the US.

[FranTastic444]

and CR yes the proper way to dispose of the flag is to burn it. however I don't see anything hilarious about it.

Which kinda adds to the weight of the sweeping generalisation that Americans just don't do irony.

[dillon]

I saw a picture of a cat the other day with a question over its head: "Cat, what is your advice regarding Brexit?"
Underneath was the cat's response: "You should repeatedly demand to go out, then when the door is opened just sit there and stare at it. That's what I would do."

Yup, sounds about right

I’d click the “like “ button for that post, if there was one!

[FranTastic444]

I was specifically thinking about Thatcher with those remarks. Face it, Thatcher was little more than Ronnie Reagan in drag, and I'm given to understand that Her Majesty The Queen was "less than enamoured" over what was going on in that government (and the lasting damage it did). Oh how I detested the '80s and the seemingly universal rise of the neocon

I was a child of the Thatcher years and I was certainly on the wrong end of some of her policies. Although her move away from traditional manufacturing industry to tech and financial services greatly helped me later in life, as a kid it led to my dad being out of work for some considerable time. The poll tax came in to being just as I started work and as a household the amount we were paying for our local services increased significantly (but isn't a patch on what I'm paying out here in Taxachusetts right now). This cemented a view in my mind that persists to this day - taxation should be based upon ability to pay. I guess I was also victim to one of her policies before she even got the top job (Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher).

My dad was a union leader in a factory in the Black Country and back then I liven in a very working class environment. Her policies around privatisation, poll tax, reform of union laws (and taking on teachers, miners and other public sector workers) seemed to me back then like class warfare and an attack on the blue collar working man. Despite a lot of pain at the time, a lot of the policies led to a modernisation of the UK. I'm sure that GDP jumped as a result, but it also accelerated the expansion of a gulf that has always been present (but is ever increasing these days) between the have's and have-not's. If Brexit does go through, I can only see that gap getting wider.

[crfriend]

Is this what you're seeing (click for link)?

Yes, that's it. At least now I'll know what I'm dealing with when I see it on the back of a stupid urban vehicle in the future.

[Sinned]

Thank you FT444, I was glad to see a bit of diversity in the display of the US flag design colours and thanks for those pictures. It seems that there is as much artistry in displaying your flag as there are displaying ours.

[moonshadow]

01052042.JPG

Heh... Brexit...