An Open Letter

Non-fashion, non-skirt, non-gender discussions. If your post is related to fashion, skirts or gender, please choose one of the forums above for it.
Gordon
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by Gordon »

I for one, would like to see political discussion banned on this forum! It probably won't happen. But that is my personal feeling. Reminds me of the saying, "there are 3 things you don't discuss, sex. religion and politics". The powers that be here have already banned one, why not the others?
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crfriend
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by crfriend »

Gordon wrote:I for one, would like to see political discussion banned on this forum! It probably won't happen. But that is my personal feeling. Reminds me of the saying, "there are 3 things you don't discuss, sex. religion and politics". The powers that be here have already banned one, why not the others?
[Mod hat on]

This is under active consideration, and I'm contemplating how best to do it without further enraging the already enraged.

All the vitriol and personal affronts over the past few days have sickened me (literally). The "experiment" -- of whether even a normally mild-tempered community like this can be rent asunder by this sort of thing beggars the imagination -- has clearly failed, and for the usual reasons.

If I need to use the Big Hammer I will; it's just that I don't like doing that and prefer a defter hand.


[Mod hat off]
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moonshadow
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by moonshadow »

If I might make a suggestion...

In reference to Introduction and Summary of the Rules
Bob wrote:2. No politics, unless related to skirts/kilts. No religion, unless related to skirts/kilts. These topics were banned because they lead to endless flame wars.
I have to say an outright ban might be unnecessary, but as Bob pointed out, we would do well to keep politics and religion pertaining to the matter of men in skirts/kilts. As, like it or not, men in skirts and kilts is very much a political and/or religious issue in some circumstances and many members (myself included) live, work, and play in areas where we constantly confront the political and religious ramifications of our choice in clothing.

I'd hate to have that channel cut out all because we can't keep it between the lines.

Such as the case with oh so many laws out there... why make new ones? Just enforce the ones already on the books eh?
-Andrea
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Gordon
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by Gordon »

crfriend wrote:
Gordon wrote:I for one, would like to see political discussion banned on this forum! It probably won't happen. But that is my personal feeling. Reminds me of the saying, "there are 3 things you don't discuss, sex. religion and politics". The powers that be here have already banned one, why not the others?
[Mod hat on]

This is under active consideration, and I'm contemplating how best to do it without further enraging the already enraged.

All the vitriol and personal affronts over the past few days have sickened me (literally). The "experiment" -- of whether even a normally mild-tempered community like this can be rent asunder by this sort of thing beggars the imagination -- has clearly failed, and for the usual reasons.

If I need to use the Big Hammer I will; it's just that I don't like doing that and prefer a defter hand.


[Mod hat off]
I can understand your reluctance. However I'm sure I'm not the only member here that absolutely hates seeing a thread that starts on point degrade and go off topic like they want to do here lately. If I want a lively political discussion, I would go to a forum that is created for just that. It isn't why I'm here! If there are people here that would get "further enraged" by you shutting down political discussions, then I say they shouldn't be here.
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Namaste,
Gordon
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Jim
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by Jim »

Another forum I'm on has a thread called the "Briar Patch". Anything that is getting into personal insults or attacks gets moved there. People who want to continue an argument may, but in that one thread only. Anyone may ask a moderator to move a discussion to the briar patch. Those who hate such things avoid the briar patch. Seems to work pretty well.
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Kilted_John
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by Kilted_John »

I'd like to see it gone as well. In my case, I'm more of a third party, since I didn't support any of the candidates who were on the ballot last November. So, I'm sitting on the sidelines with the proverbial bucket of popcorn watching what happens.

In any case, there are many other forums where people can duke it out politically and religiously. The stuff belongs there, not here.

-J
Skirted since 2/2002, kilted 8/2002-8/2011, and dressed since 9/2013...
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crfriend
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:Such as the case with oh so many laws out there... why make new ones? Just enforce the ones already on the books eh?
That's an entirely valid point, and one that has been near the top of my list of actions. The original does allow for some wiggle-room, and, quite honestly, relaxing it was a risk I took by way of experiment.

The experiment of course failed, and I suppose I should not be surprised that it did, as it only takes one or two extremists to trip the detonator -- and the amazing thing about extremists is that of everybody in the room, they have the thinnest skins and are the first to scream about silencing those on the other side. I do have to admit some level of distress that it failed here which is a place that's usually entirely polite and peopled with above-average intelligence.

The root problem is not politics, per se, it's extremist views, dogma, and rhetoric -- and a failure to behave in a civil manner. If I had the time and lexical chops to do it I'd write an auto-moderating script that would detect how far off-centre a political post is, and if it was, say, 4 standard-deviations off centre send it to the bit-bucket. That'd be nice and neutral, allow rational considered discourse, and lock the ravers on both extremes out. The problem is that extremists are very good at using our language against us, with most of the meaning left conveniently unspecified in any explicit way -- meaning that there'd not be enough subject matter for a program to lock onto.
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denimini
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by denimini »

crfriend wrote:
Gordon wrote:I for one, would like to see political discussion banned on this forum! It probably won't happen. But that is my personal feeling. Reminds me of the saying, "there are 3 things you don't discuss, sex. religion and politics". The powers that be here have already banned one, why not the others?
[Mod hat on]

This is under active consideration, and I'm contemplating how best to do it without further enraging the already enraged.

All the vitriol and personal affronts over the past few days have sickened me (literally). The "experiment" -- of whether even a normally mild-tempered community like this can be rent asunder by this sort of thing beggars the imagination -- has clearly failed, and for the usual reasons.
If I need to use the Big Hammer I will; it's just that I don't like doing that and prefer a defter hand.

[Mod hat off]
The Moderator has read the riot act, and those who are uncomfortable with some of the transgressions have voiced their disapproval.
Assuming most of us perpetrators have visited this thread and can read and comprehend, it is evident that we need to pull ourselves into line and take some pressure off our dedicated moderator and b-board mechanic ........... and avoid the big hammer. A bit like we did with unmentionables
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
PatJ
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by PatJ »

Perhaps there is an option of adding an "Ignore Thread" so that those
of us who could care less about politics or are easily upset by the remarks
regarding politics, religion, or sex could click on so that those topics or threads
simply would not appear on our view of the web site.

This would allow those who are interested in these topics to bander their
thoughts back and forth without the rest of us having to sift through items
that really don't interest us.
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crfriend
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by crfriend »

PatJ wrote:Perhaps there is an option of adding an "Ignore Thread" so that those of us who could care less about politics or are easily upset by the remarks
regarding politics, religion, or sex could click on so that those topics or threads simply would not appear on our view of the web site.
The phpBB software doesn't support that functionality "out of the box", and I likely do not have the time to write, integrate, and deploy it in a sustainable manner that wouldn't require massive re-work every time the phpBB folks deliver a new version.

It's an interesting idea, though, even if it would deny one any visibility if a thread came back on topic following a flame-war.

I think it'll be easier for everyone involved if I simply revert to the old policy that if such discussion is not directly relevant to a man's right to wear a skirt in a particular jurisdiction it's off-topic, probably inflammatory, and therefore suitable for deletion with prejudice.
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moonshadow
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote:I think it'll be easier for everyone involved if I simply revert to the old policy that if such discussion is not directly relevant to a man's right to wear a skirt in a particular jurisdiction it's off-topic, probably inflammatory, and therefore suitable for deletion with prejudice.
I'm glad to see that's the position you're favoring as I believe we've had some very enlightening discussions about how various religious views tie into male skirt wearing, as well as discuss ideas on how to deal with those issues out in the real world. Such as in the case with this thread, I found it very informative and upon re-skimming it, I noticed the "mod hat" didn't have to be called out once, even though it veered off topic a time or two and was even peppered with some passive political comments.

I think we all know what has happened here, but since we're all gentlemen nobody wants to just come out and say it, and I won't either. Something changed around late 2016 and we all know what it was.

A lot of regulars have chimed in on this thread, so I know they're all following this. We know what we have to do and the subjects best left avoided. So why not make the mods jobs easier and just follow the rules? I'll be the first to admit I've skirted them a few times myself and as for me, that needs to stop.

Carl is "flicking the lights off and on" (something I remember school teachers doing when the class got rowdy) lets stop before someone gets "suspended". And like in class, when those kids who always sit in the back start their nonsense the rest of us "SHHHHH!- You're gonna get us in trouble!" :lol: :D

Also, shout out to Anthony who rather than derail a thread made a separate one to share one of his stories. Very gentlemanly and I'm ashamed to say, not something I've been know to do, as I've occasionally ran threads completely off the rails. :oops: In fact... I might have just slightly did it again... :eye:
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crfriend
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:Carl is "flicking the lights off and on" (something I remember school teachers doing when the class got rowdy) lets stop before someone gets "suspended". And like in class, when those kids who always sit in the back start their nonsense the rest of us "SHHHHH!- You're gonna get us in trouble!" :lol: :D
Thanks for that memory, although I recall it as the five-minute warning that a symphony will be starting and folks had better get to their seats. That's a memory I cherish, even though I haven't been to a symphony in decades. :( (I need to correct that.)

But, yes, something has to happen -- and it will.
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by Grok »

I've noticed that many online forums-if intended for nonpolitical topics-ban all political posts. The concern seems to be that politics will overwhelm discussion of the original topic/purpose of the forum.

I recall an old saying that there are two subjects that are not discussed in polite company-politics and religion. Because the discussion doesn't remain polite for long.
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Sinned
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by Sinned »

PatJ, the problem with an ignore thread option is that you have to know that a thread contains political discussion in order to ignore it. In many cases the political discussion comes as the thread goes way off line. Speaking just for myself, I have learned ( learnt? ) a lot of practical grass-roots stuff about American politics from here but then I haven't been involved in the slanging matches.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: An Open Letter

Post by Stevie D »

Just a theory of mine as to why the various threads on this forum are getting into so many heated political (and possibly religious) wranglings.

We are currently going through a time of great unrest and uncertainty which is affecting us all, like it or not, worldwide. The two most contentious things which seem to affect us on here are (a) the referendum result for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union, and (b) the election of Donald Trump as president of the USA.

These two events have already changed, and will continue to change, the lives of us all, especially in regard to our lifestyles and beliefs (for example, wearing skirts, LGBT issues, religious freedom, etc.) in ways which have not been experienced since the setting up of this forum. This is all new to us and to our fellow country folk, whether on the east or west of the Atlantic. No wonder that feelings are running so high and politics creeps in so often and discussions get very intense. This forum mirrors the headlines of our newspapers and news websites and social media. You can't go very far anywhere without hearing about what Trump or Teresa May is doing or what the plans for Brexit are.

It is inevitable that we want to air our strongly held views and I believe it is right that we should, for it is only through those processes that we can come to understand what is going on and perhaps come to terms with such huge changes. Keeping quiet about it (or being made to keep quiet) is potentially dangerous and allows those who would do (dare I say) bad things, to get away with it.

I'm all for keeping the political discussions going, but it has to be done in ways which are respectful to our fellows. That's the hardest part, but I believe it is worthwhile persevering. Max Ehrmann, in his famous free verse poem 'Desiderata' (1926) entreats us to "Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story." That is possibly the most important thing we have to do in these difficult and frankly scary times.
Stevie D
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