Interesting...

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crfriend
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Interesting...

Post by crfriend »

Spotted today on a railfan photography site I happen to watch were two heavyweight depressed-center railway flatcars -- flagged as DOD (aka "War Department") -- at Worcester, MA, the big city to my west.

I wonder if the recent "election" here has made Worcester Polytechnic Institute decommission its nuclear reactor so as to get off any sort of targeting list. Not that it'll matter. mind, there are enough high-value targets in the vicinity that Worcester will be well within the direct-radiation effect-radius even if not within the blast-radius.

If one got dropped on Worcester, I'd start my usual count at the flash as I do with lightning to figure distance, likely only to be dead from X-ray exposure before I ever heard the sound. Now I'll have a longer time to worry about things. I love the world I live in now.
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Re: Interesting...

Post by hoborob »

That is of course a very interesting thing CRFriend. For me however if a Nuke where to hit the area I live in I likely wouldn't get the opportunity to do a count. I do live very close to the worlds largest Navy base after all.
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Re: Interesting...

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Hello Carl and Hoborob,

Thank you for brightening up the day for all of us! :wink:

You two have reminded me of one of the big advantages of living in a third tier city that doesn't have a major government installation.

But to try to provide some relief to you Carl, all things related to all things nuclear, except actually delivering the warheads and bombs to enemies, is under the Department of Energy not Defense. So if that railcar was involved with decommissioning, fueling or even producing weapons grade plutonium at that reactor, it would be DoE not DoD. Weird, hunh?

In fact, if they were turning that hypothetical plutonium into weapons, it would still be DoE. Like I said, only actually USING such nuclear devices is left to the DoD. It dates back to the Cold War when the government was trying to convince us official taxpayers how benign nuclear energy is and everyone else in the world that our nuclear intentions were peaceful. Remember the electricity from nuclear power plants was going to be too cheap to meter?

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Re: Interesting...

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I guess that a Polytechnic has a different meaning over there and a Poly over here was secondary to a University in status. For a Poly to have a nuclear reactor, even if a small one, is awesome.

I don't want to be complacent but I doubt that York is high on the list of targets. It's a historic city and has been at one time or another the capital of north Englandshire and main centre of the greatest ( tongue in cheek ) county hereabouts. One or two airbases nearby but nothing to really attract a nuke. Leeds/Bradford being a much bigger conglomeration would be more attractive. Not sure if the blast radius would affect York as I'm not really conversant with such things. Anyway I would prefer to be right underneath the blast than trying to eke out a living on what eco-structure is left.
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Re: Interesting...

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Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:So if that railcar was involved with decommissioning, fueling or even producing weapons grade plutonium at that reactor, it would be DoE not DoD. Weird, hunh?
The two are conjoined twins and can functionally be considered as one.

WPI's reactor is a very small one, and whilst it will produce some plutonium (all uranium-fission ones do) it's not large enough to do so on an industrial scale. Lots of universities have these things, but most of them aren't even large enough to heat the campuses with their waste heat; they're mostly used in producing other short-lived elements used in medical and materials research.
[...] Like I said, only actually USING such nuclear devices is left to the DoD. It dates back to the Cold War when the government was trying to convince us official taxpayers how benign nuclear energy is and everyone else in the world that our nuclear intentions were peaceful.
The US was the first to actually use the things, and fortunately remains the last. I don't think anybody in the US, never-mind the rest of the world was fooled by the "division" of DO"E" and DO"D" (nee "War Department", which term I still use on occasion). Also recall that it was the Soviet Union which had the first peaceful-use reactor.
Remember the electricity from nuclear power plants was going to be too cheap to meter?
Like flying cars, that remains a long-standing joke about the hypothetical future. Also practical nuclear fusion. After fifty years, it's still 20 years away.
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Re: Interesting...

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Another option for the observation is that the short train (two eight-axle depressed-centre bed cars, at least one locomotive, and a caboose) is on its way to the old Fort Devens to pick something up -- but it's pointed in the wrong direction for that, so perhaps it dropped something off there. It's on the correct track for that.

Here it is: Link (it's a big image).

The shot was taken looking north from a platform at Worcester's Union Station on the line that leads over the Wachusett Reservoir and up into Ayer, MA passing through my old (adopted) home-town. To the left of frame is the interchange with CSX's B&A main. Since the interchange with the Providence and Worcester is a thousand yards or so west, this may also be headed to the old Quonset Point Naval Air Station in Rhode Island. Who knows. It's just unusual. More unusual that seeing a guy wearing a skirt around there.
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Re: Interesting...

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The first car is quite interesting to me in that it has steps leading from the end platforms down into the depressed center of the flatcar. The second car does not have steps on it. I am wondering if this might be intended to be used as some sort of stage or display. We'll have to keep an eye out and see if it shows up somewhere else.
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Re: Interesting...

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The "Depressed Center" flat car was developed for oversize and heavy loads.
If the 'item' was very tall, using a regular flat car would not work as the load
would not go through a tunnel. Also the weight would cause the regular flat
car to buckle or break in the middle.

Here are a couple of images and a PDF diagram with 'basic information' of
what type of load the 'car' can carry

Image

Image

Basic Diagram and description of Depressed Center Flat Car

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Re: Interesting...

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The carriage type was originally designed for "railway cannon" of the sorts like the Paris Gun and some of the larger designs such as Dora and Gustav -- the ultimate executions of the concept (which dates back to the US War Between The States). Isn't technology grand! (Today, of course, "railgun" means something altogether different, hence my call-out using the older term.)

The two articles in Worcester likely didn't have such sinister intent, but were rather used to move rather ponderous military hardware around. The lettering of "DODX" is the giveaway, the suffix of "X" indicating private ownership and the others the identifier of the owner.

Given that common US railway loading practise consists of 100-ton (short -- spit!) loading on a 4-axle carriage, the use of an 8-axle (or beyond, as in the case of the very large examples pointed out by Al) represents a bit of an extreme. The articulation of the trucks must be a mechanical engineer's nightmare.

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Re: Interesting...

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With the general size of Nukes now, whether the target was Wooster or Boston is hardly important.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: Interesting...

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dillon wrote:With the general size of Nukes now, whether the target was Wooster or Boston is hardly important.
Interestingly, as technology has progressed, the overall "yield" per weapon has dropped as targeting accuracy and MIRV has advanced. Gone are the days when a 100 MT device (Tsar Bomba at maximum design yield) was needed (although I can envision uses for such a device in the modern world).

There's also the nagging question as to whether immolating cities makes strategic sense overall as cities tend to be a drain on their surroundings. Also, hitting civilian targets tends to harden resolve against an attacker rather than reduce it (viz the Blitz on London or some of the reactions in places like Dresden or Tokyo).

I'd really not like to see the US and Russia duking it out toe-to-toe in nuclear combat. There's more than enough energy in the arsenals to keep the rubble bouncing for quite a bit. However, what of assorted "rogue states" like North Korea, Pakistan, or Israel? The US under Trump? (I do hope the guy here who carries "the football" is armed full time and is authorised to shoot to kill in the event of a Fuhrer gone rogue.)
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Re: Interesting...

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crfriend wrote: I'd really not like to see the US and Russia duking it out toe-to-toe in nuclear combat. There's more than enough energy in the arsenals to keep the rubble bouncing for quite a bit. However, what of assorted "rogue states" like North Korea, Pakistan, or Israel? The US under Trump? (I do hope the guy here who carries "the football" is armed full time and is authorised to shoot to kill in the event of a Fuhrer gone rogue.)
I wouldn't exactly call Israel a "Rogue" State There are several other Countries over in that General area That I would be much more concerned about, they do have names that start with I though. Israel is the only Nation in that area that is a Democratic society that works, other middle eastern nations may have tried democracy it but failed or ended up starting a blood bath.

America was part instrumental in Wold War 2 in saving Jews from the Nazis and certain destruction via Hitlers death machine. it is no coincidence that America in the 50 and 60s had a great boon in all sectors of American Living.
this is often over looked but:
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Genesis 12:3New King James Version (NKJV) This was a promise to Abram in the Bible, the great great great (add a few more greats) gran daddy of the Jews and modern Israel.

Don't take my word for it check out Genesis Chapter 12
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Re: Interesting...

Post by kingfish »

If WPI decommissioned its reactor, I would hazard a guess it would be due to colossal regulatory costs, or a potential decline in people studying nuclear science and engineering disciplines.

And yeah, there are plenty of good strategic targets in the area. The first that comes to my mind is the Wyman Gordon foundry in North Grafton. They have been pounding out major structural components for the aerospace industry for decades. They have presses the size of medium sized houses. I remember getting a high school field trip there back in '84 and got to seeing things like a landing gear strut for the space shuttle and the wing spar for a Boeing 747 on their loading dock, ready to go out. Big iron? Meh. Big titanium!

Of course those guys are only targets for the heavy bombers and ICBMs.

About that train. That caboose has to be security. The commercial equivalent of is usually tool box sized gizmo at the back end of the last car. I'm inclined to guess they're here to pick up things that go boom in the night. Patriot missiles? If it were carrying nuclear materials, I would also expect a couple of flat cars between them and any people carriers.
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Re: Interesting...

Post by r.m.anderson »

mishawakaskirt wrote:
crfriend wrote: I'd really not like to see the US and Russia duking it out toe-to-toe in nuclear combat. There's more than enough energy in the arsenals to keep the rubble bouncing for quite a bit. However, what of assorted "rogue states" like North Korea, Pakistan, or Israel? The US under Trump? (I do hope the guy here who carries "the football" is armed full time and is authorised to shoot to kill in the event of a Fuhrer gone rogue.)
I wouldn't exactly call Israel a "Rogue" State There are several other Countries over in that General area That I would be much more concerned about, they do have names that start with I though. Israel is the only Nation in that area that is a Democratic society that works, other middle eastern nations may have tried democracy it but failed or ended up starting a blood bath.

America was part instrumental in Wold War 2 in saving Jews from the Nazis and certain destruction via Hitlers death machine. it is no coincidence that America in the 50 and 60s had a great boon in all sectors of American Living.
this is often over looked but:
I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
Genesis 12:3New King James Version (NKJV) This was a promise to Abram in the Bible, the great great great (add a few more greats) gran daddy of the Jews and modern Israel.

Don't take my word for it check out Genesis Chapter 12
and also check out this book you will find both very interesting.

As America Has Done to Israel
By: John McTernan
Whitaker House / 2008 / Paperback

Best wishes, Mishawaka :D
Just remember what the Jews did at Masada and what was done to them during WW2 - they are a faction to be contended with no matter what !

On another note the nukes on subs at sea - how many ? and they could easily wreck havoc days after a surface attack finishing off any remains of
what foolish enemy attacks us or our partners.
Never the less with the direction the earth is going in global warming any attack by anyone is just going to accelerate the demise of humanity.
A couple of nukes on the antartic could unleash floods not seen since - well the 40 day night event with Noah. A set of nukes on the west coast
earthquake fault zones could push half the country into a Pacific Ocean trench. Write about a doomsday cataclysmic world ending event just one
is enough to cause the domino effect to start to tear apart our fragile existence. Leaders who toy with the nuclear button need to remanded to a
padded cell BEFORE the irreversible damage is done !

Going "Rogue" is fine in the Movies - it is only a movie - but in real life there is no room for error - this is not a Movie !!!!!
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Re: Interesting...

Post by Darryl »

Which is why we MUST figure out a way to power the Alcubierre warp drive and test it to see if it works as theorized.

And hopefully get a significant portion of humanity off this rock. Maybe colonize a new planet: Skirtopia where the only clothing allowed is unbifurcated! :shock:
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