A moment in history

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Carl,

You need to get out more. Or else get beyond the NorthEastern attitude that insists anything that happens West of the Appalachians isn't important and West of Chicago, probably didn't happen at all.

Here in the City of Roses we keep ADDING trolley and light rail lines, despite fares being paid more or less on the honor system. In the Emerald City area, they laid dedicated lines for their Acela and it MOVES.

Another strike against double-deckers has to be safety considerations. They look top heavy and I expect for them to stay on schedule, people would be climbing up and down stairs while the vehicle was in motion.

[Disaffected.citizen]

Carl,

You need to get out more. Or else get beyond the NorthEastern attitude that insists anything that happens West of the Appalachians isn't important and West of Chicago, probably didn't happen at all.

Here in the City of Roses we keep ADDING trolley and light rail lines, despite fares being paid more or less on the honor system. In the Emerald City area, they laid dedicated lines for their Acela and it MOVES.

Another strike against double-deckers has to be safety considerations. They look top heavy and I expect for them to stay on schedule, people would be climbing up and down stairs while the vehicle was in motion.

They are actually quite stable as shown in the Routemaster tilt test; hopefully this can be seen in all regions, not just the UK.

It is fair to say that the test appears not to have been conducted fully laden, or in motion, which would alter the parameters, but the unladen vehicle has a relatively low centre of gravity. If you have seen "Live and Let Die" - the James Bond 007 film with Roger Moore, it includes several stunts with a Routemaster.

The bigger problem is driver error and miscalculation when confronted by a low bridge! Results are quite spectacular, as also seen in the above film, if there are no injuries.

[Stevie D]

Carl,
...Another strike against double-deckers has to be safety considerations. They look top heavy and I expect for them to stay on schedule, people would be climbing up and down stairs while the vehicle was in motion.

Double decker buses are fine! We have been using them for over a century and it is quite usual for people to climb the stairs while the vehicle is in motion. There are plenty of grab rails and surprisingly few accidents. As for stability, all double decker designs are tested and have to remain stable up to an angle of tilt of 30° from the vertical.

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

That's quite the testing machine!

I stand corrected. Thank you!

I was just speculating about the safety angles; does anyone actually know why in the US we go for articulated buses rather than doubledeckers. Is it no more profound than we don't want to be mistaken for Englishmen given that our language sounds so similar?

[crfriend]

Here in the City of Roses we keep ADDING trolley and light rail lines, despite fares being paid more or less on the honor system. In the Emerald City area, they laid dedicated lines for their Acela and it MOVES.

Mass transit is one of the things that make urban life possible -- and several cities have gone so far as making it "free" for the passengers to ride by reallocating funding from other places. This is a great idea. High-speed rail on dedicated lines is a fantastic idea, as shown by France's TGV and Japan's Shinkansen. How fast do the Acela-type trains go out in the Northwest?

Another strike against double-deckers has to be safety considerations. They look top heavy and I expect for them to stay on schedule, people would be climbing up and down stairs while the vehicle was in motion.

That doesn't seem to bother the folks in the UK. I suspect the engineers got the CG down low enough so that capsizing isn't all that great a threat, but, yes, they do look a bit unstable.

[Stevie D]

That's quite the testing machine!

I stand corrected. Thank you!

I was just speculating about the safety angles; does anyone actually know why in the US we go for articulated buses rather than doubledeckers. Is it no more profound than we don't want to be mistaken for Englishmen given that our language sounds so similar?

I suspect that the British double-decker buses, and earlier trams and trolley buses, came about largely because they developed from the horse-drawn carriage. In the congested streets of Victorian cities (especially London) length-space was always at a premium and it was easier to build shorter and taller horse-drawn vehicles rather than longer ones.

The street layout of many older British town and city centres date from medieval times and can be relatively narrow with tight turns and corners, which can cause difficulties for articulated buses. But we do have them in some places. In the US, I guess that town planning and development nearly always took place with far more space to lay out the streets, and hence more amenable to longer articulated vehicles.



Useful link?
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Transport.jsp

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Thank you Stevie, I think you're probably right.

Your point about the layout of the cities reminds me that we Americans don't have enough appreciation for how incredibly lucky we were in the formative years of our country. The colonists were dropped into an incredible bounty at the perfect time to start fresh. Lots of open space to layout planned cities, Boston being the exception that proves the rule.

The timing was perfect, just far enough into the Industrial Revolution and the Age of Enlightenment that the opportunities were just over the horizon, but not close enough that the current superpower could hold onto let alone retake its erstwhile colonies.

My thanks to the ancestors of our brothers on the other side of the pond!

[Judah14]

That doesn't seem to bother the folks in the UK. I suspect the engineers got the CG down low enough so that capsizing isn't all that great a threat, but, yes, they do look a bit unstable.

Modern double-decker buses, like this one in Metro Manila, are basically low-floor buses with another deck on top, making them about as tall as an intercity coach.

[crfriend]

[... D]oes anyone actually know why in the US we go for articulated buses rather than doubledeckers. Is it no more profound than we don't want to be mistaken for Englishmen given that our language sounds so similar?

This is highly likely down to more passenger-capacity per driver and low bridges (which in older parts of the New World are commonplace; this poses a problem for railroads as it makes some of the Northeast inaccessible for double-stack trains). I know there are bridges in Boston that would stop a double-decker in its tracks (Yes, I know Boston is an aberration), but I suspect that may other older east-coast urban centres have the same problem (11-foot-8, Durham, NC).

DC -- Thanks for the link to the video. The action on the skid-pad is quite good, but I suspect the bus would "trip" if it hit a kerb whilst in such a sideways slide. This is what does in lots of SUVs here in the states; they'll get into a skid because the driver did something stupid and then go over when the wheels hit something fixed.

[Disaffected.citizen]

DC -- Thanks for the link to the video. The action on the skid-pad is quite good, but I suspect the bus would "trip" if it hit a kerb whilst in such a sideways slide. This is what does in lots of SUVs here in the states; they'll get into a skid because the driver did something stupid and then go over when the wheels hit something fixed.

We have a similar problem with drivers of 4x4s when the snows come; they seem to be under the misapprehension that because they can get traction and therefore moving, they have better grip and can continue at the usual speed when cornering and leaving braking to the last minute. Obviously, like for like, they still only have four patches of rubber in contact with the road, and trying to haul two plus tons round a bend, or bring it to a standstill is a matter of physics! This mindset is why our news reports of severe weather often feature a "Chelsea tractor" overturned or in a ditch

[pelmut]

Carl,
...Another strike against double-deckers has to be safety considerations. They look top heavy and I expect for them to stay on schedule, people would be climbing up and down stairs while the vehicle was in motion.

Double decker buses are fine! We have been using them for over a century and it is quite usual for people to climb the stairs while the vehicle is in motion. There are plenty of grab rails and surprisingly few accidents. As for stability, all double decker designs are tested and have to remain stable up to an angle of tilt of 30° from the vertical.

Older trams had several tons of motors with cast iron casings mounted just above track level; the trucks were steel framed and the main chassis was a based on couple of heavy steel girders. The upstairs bodywork was mainly wooden and so were the seats, so the centre of gravity stayed quite low. More modern trams replaced the wood with lightweight aluminium bodywork, so they were stable too. They couldn't slide sideways, so there was no risk of hitting something solid and overturning at the end of a skid.