Corona Virus

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Kirbstone
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Kirbstone »

Dentistry remains perhaps the activity requiring the closest proximity to 'strangers'. I expect that at this stage no patient would want to be treated by an unvaccinated dentist.
I am due to have the now recommended third 'booster' jab very shortly. That is all I can do, apart from wearing PPE to make my daily multiple close encounters as infection free as possible. It's worked so far.

Fortunately here well over 90% of the population are double-jabbed, but we're still wearing masks indoors in public and social distancing 2 meters &c. I don't expect to see widespread abandonment of that anytime soon.

Very recently a female prof. at Univ Coll Dublin came out as an anti-vaccer and included this attitude in her lectures. She was summarily thrown out on her ear by the College authorities. Proper order.

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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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Kirbstone wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:51 pm
Very recently a female prof. at Univ Coll Dublin came out as an anti-vaccer and included this attitude in her lectures. She was summarily thrown out on her ear by the College authorities. Proper order.
Bravo. The numbers are in, and they are compelling.

Though, I do recall the fun I had with a member of my inner circle about me being anti-VAX. "Of course I'm anti-VAX; I always have been." to which righteous ire was raised and then subsided somewhat on subsequent conversation on other matters. He made sure to bring it up several times over the course of the conversation and each time I restated that I was anti-VAX. This lasted for almost an hour, and before we terminated the conversation he got rather blunt and asked, "With your background how can you oppose vaccines? It makes no sense!" My response was that I wasn't opposed to vaccinations in the slightest and had already had mine, but rather that I had a firm distaste for the "broad-tailled Bronx shirley" that was DEC's follow-on to the venerable PDP-11 -- the VAX-11. A few seconds of silence ensued followed by the words of "You son of a b***h! You've been having me on!" To which there was much laughter. Busted.
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Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Sinned wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:34 pm
gusto, I fail to see how you contend that the vaccine is still in phase 3 testing. Pfizer and BioNTech say that they finished phase 3 in 18th November 2020 https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-relea ... 19-vaccine. AstraZenica said they had completed phase 3 testing by 22 March 2021 https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centr ... point.html. I'm sure there are other examples.

The vaccines have finished testing, unless you consider the live implementation one huge testing phase. However you look at it and whatever cases/figures/statistics you dredge up the covid vaccination programme has ben a warranted success. Now whether you get yourself vaccinated or not, and that is your right, is up to you but stop trying to convince others not to. You are not just swimming against the tide, you are swimming against a tsunami. In the end the statistics say that more unvaccinated will die of covid than vaccinated.

And no I'm not in favour of banning you and you shuldn't be just because of your contra stance on a single topic.
According to the information provided by my government, it's still fase 3. I'm participating in a fase 4 test. The surprising thing was, after "enrolling"in the fase 4 I received more info than [reviously.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ray »

…then either your government is wrong, or your country is extremely slow in conducting testing.

Either way, the stated vaccines have passed stringent clinical trials in other countries.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmut »

Kirbstone wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:51 pm
Dentistry remains perhaps the activity requiring the closest proximity to 'strangers'.
Ceilidh dancing is even closer -- and there is a lot more heavy breathing.  You also get close to far more strangers per hour than in dentistry (or any other activity that would lead to heavy breathing).
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
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Re: Corona Virus

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Out and about I've resolved to not worry about people who don't get the jab. My region is EXTREMELY anti-vaxx at the moment and we have the hospital cases and death rates to prove it.

I've got my jab, and everyone that I love in my inner circle, my wife, both my parents, and my daughter, have it too.

To hell with anyone who doesn't have it at this point.

In three more years when His Royal Highness returns to his place at the right hand of God almighty and starts pushing the jab, I'm sure we'll have 100% compliance then... I know that's the real reason for the anti-vaxx movement... just to train wreck the nation so we can have our proper King back on the throne.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:00 pm
To hell with anyone who doesn't have it at this point.
Yes, it's about time we started selecting for brains and social responsibility instead of "rugged individualism" and brawn.
In three more years when His Royal Highness returns to his place at the right hand of God almighty and starts pushing the jab, I'm sure we'll have 100% compliance then... I know that's the real reason for the anti-vaxx movement... just to train wreck the nation so we can have our proper King back on the throne.
That sent a chill up my spine.
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Re: Corona Virus

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crfriend wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:29 pm
That sent a chill up my spine.
And it should...

Consider the notion, if my suspicion is correct, we have people, mass amounts of people who are killing and dying for that man...
"The price of freedom of religion or of speech or of the press is that we must put up with, and even pay for, a good deal of rubbish."

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Re: Corona Virus

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moonshadow wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:00 pm
Out and about I've resolved to not worry about people who don't get the jab. My region is EXTREMELY anti-vaxx at the moment and we have the hospital cases and death rates to prove it.
That's basically where I'm at too. I do worry a bit about those who can't get it or where it didn't provide immunity (immunocompromised), but my feeling is, if they are concerned enough they will be able to avoid situations that are risky, and if not behave in ways the minimize their own personal risk. I'm kinda a hermit of sorts so it's easy for me to say this.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Coder »

moonshadow wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:12 pm
crfriend wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:29 pm
That sent a chill up my spine.
And it should...

Consider the notion, if my suspicion is correct, we have people, mass amounts of people who are killing and dying for that man...
I'm not convinced they are doing it *intentionally* (although you aren't saying it's intentional). I know people who were pro T but also anti jab when he was the leader. I also know a few who were anti T and also anti jab before. The election didn't change their stance, however, I'm sure with some of the mandates (especially the employer one), it's cemented the right's allegiance to T further - I'm kind of curious how the anti T people are reacting to the mandates. Do they support Biden still???? I avoid FB, Twitter and conspiracy forums like the plague - I have no way of collecting this information short of directly asking someone. I don't really want to... I enjoy peaceful non-political discourse when possible.

Also - they don't think they are killing anyone - and essentially at this point they are killing themselves if we TRUST the vaccine.

Regardless, they just don't see the connection. I've had numerous conversations with COVID-deniers, and while their reasoning isn't, well, reasoned, I just can't figure out what it will take to get through to them. The crux of the problem is, COVID isn't that deadly, nor is it typically a rapid death. We just don't personally see that many people we *personally* know who died from COVID. I can count one person, and one bad stroke. That was in an elderly couple. I didn't even know them except through church. It's really hard to convince someone, with a personal (however illogical) belief, that this thing is real unless they go through it directly or in a close member. Even that doesn't always work, because I know a young couple who's infant was on oxygen with COVID for some time.

* Statistics don't convince them - they claim the scientist's motives are wrong
* Hospitalization numbers don't convince them - it only impacts them if they need to go to the ER, and ERs have been good (at least in my area) of segregating COVID from regular sickness
* Mortuary freezer trucks don't matter - I've never directly asked about this but it should be a MAJOR RED FLAG when a state (NY, TX) requests mortuary freezer trucks. That's just bonkers. That's *not normal*. Period.

It feels very tribal/political right now, and it bothers me a lot.
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Re: Corona Virus

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There have been reported articles, along with photos, of mass graves of covid fatalities. And because it's not local that won't change their minds either. Saying that there are 1,500 deaths in the country through covid fails fails to have any meaning after a while. Maybe if a covid denier had a heart attack or stroke only to find that A&E was full, there were no beds in IC and the operating theatres were being used to treat covid patients then it might sink in.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Ray wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:00 am
…then either your government is wrong, or your country is extremely slow in conducting testing.

Either way, the stated vaccines have passed stringent clinical trials in other countries.
At this very moment both in N-America as in Europe, the monoclonal vaccins are under a EUA. Pfizer did a BLA (The Biologics License Application (BLA) is a request for permission to introduce, or deliver for introduction, a biologic product into interstate commerce (21 CFR 601.2). The BLA is regulated under 21 CFR 600 – 680.) but the EUA was extended.
Here you can check with the CDC: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/resu ... ity=&dist=

You will find similar information with the EMA in Europe.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

moonshadow wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:00 pm
In three more years when His Royal Highness returns to his place at the right hand of God almighty and starts pushing the jab, I'm sure we'll have 100% compliance then... I know that's the real reason for the anti-vaxx movement... just to train wreck the nation so we can have our proper King back on the throne.
From across the pond, T should be provided with a room with a view and the key should be lost. Also, if T would be appointed again than it will strengthen other countries and the alliances. We have just seen the consdequences of T's action on turning over Afghanistan to the Taliban.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Coder wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:46 pm


Regardless, they just don't see the connection. I've had numerous conversations with COVID-deniers, and while their reasoning isn't, well, reasoned, I just can't figure out what it will take to get through to them.
The same can be said of pro vaxxers who all accept without thought what is said by their governments.
And there are also people who are neither anti or pro, but leave others to their choice and respect them therefor. Such respect may be expected also in the other direction.
Furthermore, there are basically more than two groups, 1) vacced, 2) non vaccid and non immuun per illness, 3) immuun, non vacced due to having contracted covid, 4) non immuun non vacced for reason of their health.
From what I have heard from many in my surroundigs, those who did contract covid, all recoverd, some had some longer lasting effects but those who encountered the longer lasting effects were mostly touched by the alpha variant. With the bèta and Delta variant such was much less the case.
Factors of influence on being able to cope with the virus is ones health in general. People with a BMI in the green sector have less chance of severe problems than people who are diabetics, have heart conditions etc. If you look at the data, you will see that people over 50 will be more easy touched in general by the virus, but do realise that they may have more medical problems than people of 20. But looking at the figures during the Delta peak, the most with positive test were in their 20's and their parents (european data). But the number of people in hospital were no more or less than with alpha. etc.

Often enough the discussion on whether or not are conducted in the extreme, examples of people dying of covid, breakthrough patients, etc. E.g. on a population of say 17 million, there were max 800 in hospital at one time, of which about 250 on the IC. Actual data on whether or not vaaccinated was not available other than by means of crunching numbers via databases.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ray »

Gusto,

Your response to me was confusing and the link was to a huge mass of data.

Can you please be more specific in your explanations and rationale?

Thanks.
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