Covid 19

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Gusto10
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Ray wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:41 am
Frankly, I don’t care where the vaccine came from. It’s here and we have to deal with it.

Taking the vaccine has consequences.

Not taking the vaccine has consequences.

I took the vaccine as I preferred the consequences of doing so - not only for me, but for those around me.

I do think that those who have takin the vaccine should be given priority (on hospital admissions) over those who have not voluntarily taken the vaccine (medical reasons notwithstanding). While one has to respect the decision of those who don’t get vaccinated, they in turn have to accept the consequences of their actions.
I take it that you mean that you are not interested as what the origin of the virus is.

As to making the vaccin obligatory, there are international regulations in general which will not allow such, one being the non discrimination, another the Neurenberg Convention.
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Sinned
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Re: Covid 19

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I am interested in the origin of the virus in an academic sense but only where its origin can be proved and we are far from that at the moment. With destruction/suppression of information by the Chinese we may never be able to prove its origin.

As to the "5 Jetblue pilots" article the right wing slant shouted at me when there was an advert for a 2020 Gold/Silver plated "Keep America Great/President Trump" coin, which I suspect is not legal tender because there is no monetary value on the coin. I continued no further.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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denimini
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Re: Covid 19

Post by denimini »

Gusto10 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:11 pm
Is this how things are in Australia?
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CRVbLyxnLQ1/
That is just one person's point of view ........... on Instagram. I know some people who have had positive changes to their life. If you want some peer reviewed analysis you could catch up on a site like https://theconversation.com/au

We have done pretty well in suppressing, probably eradicating it a couple of times but it seems to get away from hotel quarrantine of international arrivals (hotels weren't designed for that and staff not well trained or well paid). This Delta strain seems more difficult to keep up with contact tracing. Then you get a couple of infected truck dirvers delivering to 3 states, against all rules, and visiting a big foorball match ....... very hard to wind that back, especially when they are no cooperative about their movements. Their mother recently died from it.

We haven't done very with vacination and until we get the vaccination numbers up we will have to keep trying to suppress the spread.

Sometimes there are advantages being in the outback, although a lot of tourists no doubt escaping the cities.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
rode_kater
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Re: Covid 19

Post by rode_kater »

Gusto10 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:22 pm
It concerns the effectivity of vaccins , being never 100%. most interesting is the sentence: Les vaccins contre le Covid-19, quel que soit le laboratoire, n'ont jamais prétendu être efficaces à 100% => The vaccins against covid 19, which probably escaped from the lab, never pretended to be 100% effective.
Looks like a dodgy translation? None of those french words mean "escaped". For me it translates as "regardless of laboratory", which I assume they are referring to the labs that made the vaccines..

Incidentally, government owned doesn't mean "the government" has any say. Just like shareholders of my company don't get to tell me what to do. I wouldn't expect some random news writer to have any useful information on this topic.

(I put "the government" in quotes because the idea that the government is a single entity with a coherent opinion of anything is silly).
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crfriend
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Re: Covid 19

Post by crfriend »

Indeed none of the manufacturers of, nor the research labs that did the designs of the vaccines claimed 100% efficacy because there is no such thing. "Good" is roughly 75%; 90+% is close to miraculous. Anybody claiming 100% is lying through their teeth. Likewise, nobody claimed 100% safety -- for the same reason.

What's in play is that there is little public understanding of the way large-scale vaccination campaigns are run, and thus the uninformed are especially biased to bad and outright false information. It was different when we had a better-educated population who had some inkling of the way that science works; that has since been lost, leaving a lot of folks without good tools to deal with what they're being bombarded with. Note, also, that conspiracy theories are packed up in a way that incites the emotions -- in stark difference to the way that actual scientific reporting does. In short the conspiracy theory "sounds better" to the uninitiated.

There's also what's known as the Dopeler [sic] Effect which states, "The faster a dumb idea comes at you the more convincing it sounds."
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Ray
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Re: Covid 19

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Gusto10,

To your first point - correct. I have no interest in the source of the virus.

To your second point - incorrect. I am not suggesting compulsory vaccination. I’m saying that if you don’t get vaccinated (when the option is open to your age group) you should be at the back of the queue when treatment is being given out. That statement is a motive to get vaccinated; it is not compulsory.
Faldaguy
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Faldaguy »

It is not very decent, or kind -- but I am beginning to think just maybe if all of the people refusing and declining the vaccine (if it is available to them) will help rid the earth of the inanity that has brought it so much grief. [Note: nearly the only people dying from Covid now are the un-vaccinated.]
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Re: Covid 19

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It's one of the consequences of being unvaccinated but unfortunately it takes up so many resources trying to keep them alive when they really don't want to be kept alive. Otherwise they would have got the vaccine. Harsh, but then, that's life.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Gusto10
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

rode_kater wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:16 am
Gusto10 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:22 pm
It concerns the effectivity of vaccins , being never 100%. most interesting is the sentence: Les vaccins contre le Covid-19, quel que soit le laboratoire, n'ont jamais prétendu être efficaces à 100% => The vaccins against covid 19, which probably escaped from the lab, never pretended to be 100% effective.
Looks like a dodgy translation? None of those french words mean "escaped". For me it translates as "regardless of laboratory", which I assume they are referring to the labs that made the vaccines..

Incidentally, government owned doesn't mean "the government" has any say. Just like shareholders of my company don't get to tell me what to do. I wouldn't expect some random news writer to have any useful information on this topic.

(I put "the government" in quotes because the idea that the government is a single entity with a coherent opinion of anything is silly).
RK, indeed, "probably"is to rough, "maybe" would have been better.

As to the involvement of the French State in the press agencies, During the last few years I have learned a lot on how things work in France. E.g. someone who works in the postal services can outrank a police officer.
Gusto10
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Faldaguy wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:49 am
It is not very decent, or kind -- but I am beginning to think just maybe if all of the people refusing and declining the vaccine (if it is available to them) will help rid the earth of the inanity that has brought it so much grief. [Note: nearly the only people dying from Covid now are the un-vaccinated.]
Looking back at the "Pest" era and bearing in mind the extensive ancient cities found in amongst others Egypt, one might conclude that pandemics have taken place before.
As to whether or not to be vaccinated, time will tell which decision was best.
Gusto10
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Ray wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:06 pm
Gusto10,

To your first point - correct. I have no interest in the source of the virus.

To your second point - incorrect. I am not suggesting compulsory vaccination. I’m saying that if you don’t get vaccinated (when the option is open to your age group) you should be at the back of the queue when treatment is being given out. That statement is a motive to get vaccinated; it is not compulsory.
Ray,
January last the European Parlement decided (resolution 2361) that nobody may in whatever fashion be obliged to take the vaccin. That includes moral obligation. It has to ones free choice. Thats also the essence of the Neurenberg covention, medical trials may nog be conducted on large scale without full information (pro's, con's), consent, etc. At present the vaccins are still in trial stages.

The alternative is getting the bug, being treated immediately with Invermectin, Darapladib, Flumatinib, medicine which have proven their worth and of which long term side effects are known, thus having natural antibodies. Like with the vaccins some may not survive such treatments.

As to the source. If I encounter something defective, I tend to assess the cause in order to find the right means for repair. Whilst sitting in the car thing morning I heard that China is vfurious as the WHO wants a further investigation on the source as upto this moment China and also Peter Daszak, who was involved in te research by Dr Shi c.s. do not want to provide information thereon. What is known on her research is contradicted by earlier PhD research.
Gusto10
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... cdh-report

The dirty dozen, responsable for the misinformation on covid.
Ray
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Ray »

I agree that getting the vaccination is one’s free choice. I want to see them accept the consequences of their inaction though. Simple as that. There is no moral obligation.

Take the vaccination and get protection (and protect).

Don’t take the vaccination and accept that you’re not going to get priority on treatment.

That’s my view.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Kirbstone »

You don't get closer to strangers than when you practice Dentistry.. Throughout the period we have been full time at work , four of us in this progressive practice. We have never been busier and to date I have not knowingly treated anyone who has Covid.

Needless to say I'm double vaccinated myself and I have my digital EU vaccination card. There are now mutterings abroad that it may be wise later on to have a booster jab, which I'd be totally in agreement with.

Indoor dining is about to be restarted here, but only for those who can show this EU Cert. I expect that will apply to theatres & concert halls too.

Tom
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Gusto10
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Ray wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:13 am
I agree that getting the vaccination is one’s free choice. I want to see them accept the consequences of their inaction though. Simple as that. There is no moral obligation.

Take the vaccination and get protection (and protect).

Don’t take the vaccination and accept that you’re not going to get priority on treatment.

That’s my view.
Indeed, it's everybodies free choice.
Now going to be the advocates devil :mrgreen: :
Vaccination is presented as being put under a "cloche" hence you will protect others and be safeguarded. The essence of a vaccin is that it will kick into action with your auto immuun system (AIS), enhance your auto immuun system, so the effects of contracting the virus will be less. You still can spread the germ during the period of catching the germ and that your AIS is full active.
Being vaccinated means also accepting the long term side effects as much as one who isn't vaccinated accepts the chance being by the virus.
Most of the non vaccinated people contracting the virus, where in good health and experienced a short period of flue like symptoms. Some - very few - contract the long term covid, will experience more severe symptoms, and a few others (i.e. 1500 IC cases on a population of 17 million = 0.0001). Most of these already have a medical histoy that is more than the occasional cold. I do find percentages more interesting than absolute figures.
Another interesting question: what are the costs of vacination versus the costs treatment? I don't know, but I'm darn curious. Anybody out there who can tell?

What if someone had a stroke, may you ask of them to be vaccinated with a vaccin that might augment the chance of getting a new stroke as the vaccin is counterproductive to the medication prescribed to prefent a new stroke. I don't think so.

What if, as a number of specialists state, that your AIS will be blocked in due course by the vaccin?
What if you are living in the middle of no-where and are self supporting?

What if the mRNA vaccins, being syntatic, will cause cancer due to the nano particels used? (no, I'm not a anti vax, nor am I a pro vax. In my opinion there are to many unanswered questions to make a sound choice. I'm just not a sheep jumping over the fence because all others do.).

I do think that the best measures taken to decrease the contaminations,
- decrease travel
- decrease interaction
- the wearing of protective masks
Last edited by Gusto10 on Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:45 am, edited 5 times in total.
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