Covid 19

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Coder
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Coder »

So… I heard an offhand comment that the Indian variant / “double mutant” was impacting the UK even though there’s a high % of vaccinated individuals. I tried doing some google searches but don’t know which news source to trust so was curious if anyone over there could comment? All I could find were reports on pockets of covid popping up in isolated areas, and some concern over the higher transmissibility of it. I think we are too early to know whether the vaccines will stop these variants, but overall it seems they will help.

We (the US) just essentially lifted the mask mandate, even though we’re only 43% vaccinated… seems a bit premature but I’ll leave it there.
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Re: Covid 19

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Coder wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:00 pm We (the US) just essentially lifted the mask mandate, even though we’re only 43% vaccinated… seems a bit premature but I’ll leave it there.
Yep... Virginia (a blue state) is lifting mask restrictions, among others later this month despite the statistics you cite.

Odd isn't it? Now we have these mutant vaccine resistant strains all over the world, yet we're not worried here...?

Why not?

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy things are opening back up, but it's the circumstances that surround this whole debacle that are raising red flags for me.

Because it seems like this was just a political game. And I feel like a damned fool for falling for it...

You can't sit here and tell me a virus just ceases to be an issue because suddenly there's a Democrat in the Whitehouse.

I call bs.

And as for you folks over in Europe, Tom, Dennis, among others, having to show the cops your papers every time you go to the store... I'm starting to think you're being had... you may need to pull some 1776 on your rulers over there... we can give you some pointers on that if it helps... :wink:

Having an armed populace helps :wink: :wink: (double-wink)

America wouldn't tolerate that sh!t, and we proved it last year.

And yeah, I know China posted a big party when they beat the bug, but over here, the party never really stopped, it just moved around from one lenient state to the other...

'Cause that's how we roll.. nothing stops an American from having a good time. :lol:

And I say all this in good light hearted fun (not my usual cynical sarcasm belive it or not).
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:51 pmBecause it seems like this was just a political game. And I feel like a damned fool for falling for it...

You can't sit here and tell me a virus just ceases to be an issue because suddenly there's a Democrat in the Whitehouse.
Try telling that to the relatives of those who died from the thing.

Now perhaps -- just perhaps -- this was a ruse. I could believe that if it wasn't a global problem, and excess mortality tends to show up in the statistics. I am not aboard with it being a ruse simply because too many other nations -- who have no reason to lie about the matter -- got impacted.
And as for you folks over in Europe, Tom, Dennis, among others, having to show the cops your papers every time you go to the store... I'm starting to think you're being had... you may need to pull some 1776 on your rulers over there... we can give you some pointers on that if it helps... :wink:
I've been known -- at my age -- to have to show my "papers" simply to buy a beer at a ballpark. Do not think that the USA is anywhere near as "free" as the propaganda proclaims. This, recall, is a nation where the "police" have essentially unrestricted licence to kill for any reason or no reason whatsoever.
America wouldn't tolerate that sh!t, and we proved it last year.
And it raised its ugly head on the day that the results of the Electoral College were to be ratified -- in accordance with law -- by the Congress of the United States of America. That was a shameful moment if there ever was one.
And I say all this in good light hearted fun (not my usual cynical sarcasm belive it or not).
Some things -- especially evil things -- need to be called out, and making light of the situation does not help matters.
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Re: Covid 19

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Coder, the Indian mutant is established in Bolton, Lancashire and is present among those that haven't been vaccinated, either because their names hadn't come up on the list yet or they refused the vaccine. There is a mass programme to vaccinate EVERYONE in the Bolton area, irrespective of age. In the rest of the country we have today achieved the next stage out of lockdown. Restaurants, cinemas and all the rest are open, we can enjoy a pint in a pub now. So things are returning to normal rather quickly now. We are still urged to proceed with caution, though.
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Re: Covid 19

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An elderly couple at our church were hospitalized for covid-related issues (stroke, pneumonia) and one succumbed to it. While those are the only people I know personally who have gotten real sick from it - I have friends who have had many more family/friends die from it.

I think the issue about masking has been whether it was helpful of not - lacking proper studies and trials the CDC and other health agencies basically created guidelines using their best judgment. Some of it flew against “common sense” (ie, masking outdoors all the time), but overall it seemed (to me at least) a prudent measure indoors with no other tools at our disposal (distancing can only be taken so far).

This latest ruling is… well just a bit off. It feels rash and without the CDC releasing the science they are basing this off of (I’ve heard some of this is from a study of 4,000 front-line workers), a bit disingenuous and very political. And yeah, I expected something like this to happen close to 70% or so vaccinated, but not our low numbers.

I’m very confident - having just traveled through a bunch of states (OH, IN, IL, MO, AR, OK, TX) that masks will be but a thing of the past unless these variants take a hold.

All that being said - it will be very interesting to see how things shape up over the next month - and whether or not numbers stay low or if they go up with things being relaxed. Honestly, I’m not going to even guess because there are so many factors it could go either way.
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Re: Covid 19

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crfriend wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:14 pm
moonshadow wrote:Because it seems like this was just a political game. And I feel like a damned fool for falling for it...

You can't sit here and tell me a virus just ceases to be an issue because suddenly there's a Democrat in the Whitehouse.
Try telling that to the relatives of those who died from the thing.
I'm not denying the virus's severity. I'm aware some have perished as a result of covid-19. But what's interesting is how this disease, which is still claiming lives is being taken less seriously now by the very same people that were screaming the end of the world just 12 short months ago.

My issue is how this thing basically switched off practically overnight.

Trump was a jerk, no doubt, and his handling of the pandemic left a lot to be desired, but I can not rule out the idea that this thing was blown out of proportion by, what I can only guess must be some kind of "left wing elitist" to get him out of office.

You've said yourself, the world is ruled by Oligarchs. What if Trump, despite being a jerk, wasn't one of them? This whole ordeal has caused a GREAT deal of pain and misery to millions, if not billions of people, and if it is ever proven that this was enlisted by elitist to remove a man from office, then that must be the most sick and sinister act I've ever heard of in the modern era, possibly in the history of civilization. And remember, other nations had an interest in removing Trump from office too.

Now this is all speculation. It's probably woefully inaccurate, and I hope it is. I sincerely hope you are correct, and in all likelihood, you are more correct than I am. Yet there is still this lingering question: why is this suddenly a non-issue? It's the question that burns in my mind day and night, it has made me question my loyalties to certain causes, and has made me pull back and reconsider some older notions I've held.

There is ample evidence that both political parties in this society are corrupt and rotten down to the core. I receive emails and notifications daily over how the "People's Party" among other third parties and independents are being trampled over by both the Democrats and Republicans. Neither side wants free and fair elections.

All sides of the media, and all major politicians have been caught in numerous lies. Tell me, when you catch someone in a lie, how do you trust that person henceforth? How do you know when they are being truthful and when they are not? Once a liar, always a liar.

I have followed all guidelines to the letter. I wore my mask when required, and when I became eligible for the vaccine I took both shots without hesitation. I've never been an "anti-masker" or "anti-vaxer", and CERTAINLY never a "TRUMPIE", but even if I dislike someone, and believe them to be unfit for certain jobs, that doesn't mean I condone scapegoating, or using those people as tools to advance opposing agendas.

Yes, I'm annoyed, because the same leaders that screamed the end of the world, and shut down the economy last year, the same people that had me up nights wondering if I'd be unemployed without health insurance, the same people pushed for this fuster-cluck that myself and people like me are still trying to navigate through without losing anything else are now magically saying "all systems go... as you were!"

I can't help but feel a bit like a chump right now, and I imagine I'm not the only one.

* * *

Carl, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying right now I don't trust anyone.
crfriend wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:14 pm
moonshadow wrote:And as for you folks over in Europe, Tom, Dennis, among others, having to show the cops your papers every time you go to the store... I'm starting to think you're being had... you may need to pull some 1776 on your rulers over there... we can give you some pointers on that if it helps... :wink:
I've been known -- at my age -- to have to show my "papers" simply to buy a beer at a ballpark. Do not think that the USA is anywhere near as "free" as the propaganda proclaims. This, recall, is a nation where the "police" have essentially unrestricted licence to kill for any reason or no reason whatsoever.
I'm not really a casual drinker, but on the few occasions I do make a purchase, I don't think I've been carded for quite some time. In fact, Jenn and I both ordered a bottle of wine at the Peaks Restaurant last weekend, nobody said a thing. Walmart just ask for my birthday, and that's just to put it in the register so it can complete the sale.

I'm surprised you get carded, don't get me wrong, you look longer than your actual age, but you are clearly over 21. :P
crfriend wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:14 pm
moonshadow wrote:America wouldn't tolerate that sh!t, and we proved it last year.
And it raised its ugly head on the day that the results of the Electoral College were to be ratified -- in accordance with law -- by the Congress of the United States of America. That was a shameful moment if there ever was one.
True, that was a stain on our history. But I wasn't referring to that. I was talking about the general protest, the people that despite all odds, continued to run their businesses, find little loop holes, get their hair cut, etc.

And let's be honest, the only reason those insurrectionist got as far as they did was because Trump let them.
crfriend wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:14 pm
moonshadow wrote:And I say all this in good light hearted fun (not my usual cynical sarcasm belive it or not).
Some things -- especially evil things -- need to be called out, and making light of the situation does not help matters.
I honestly don't know which way to cast my stone. I see no harm in a little smirk when we're surrounded by misery. I'm not out of the woods yet myself. The ripple effects of this tattered [pro-Wall Street] economy are still being felt. Every time they call a meeting I cringe wondering if this is it... off to the bread line.

But hey... it's nice to know all of the ring leaders of this circus (the politicians) are doing just fiiiiiine! They don't have a care in the world. Why should they?
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Re: Covid 19

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Moon, I must have missed your comment previously: "And as for you folks over in Europe, Tom, Dennis, among others, having to show the cops your papers every time you go to the store... I'm starting to think you're being had... you may need to pull some 1776 on your rulers over there... we can give you some pointers on that if it helps... :wink:"

We never have to show any papers to go to the store. We have to wear a mask and "observe a 2m social distance" [0] and most stores have capacity issues which mean possibly queueing outside for a short while. But that's about it. Even the idea of having a covid passport in order to go to the pub has been rejected. A NHS app that will show what covid-related events have happened ( infections, jabs ) is about as far as it goes. And this will only be used when going abroad on holiday. We have no ID card and don't even have to carry a driving license around all the time - just be able to produce it when asked. I know where mine is but haven't physically handled it for years. We are very much a non-paper producing people. We only have a passport because other countries require them to prove nationality.

[0] We don't, in general observe any 2m rule and just wander around the store as before the pandemic. In our store we put down direction arrows to form some sort of "traffic" flow but few follow them.
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Re: Covid 19

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Sinned wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:14 am ...In our store we put down direction arrows to form some sort of "traffic" flow but few follow them.
In one supermarket near me they put down arrows in two adjacent aisles both pointing the same way, with no return path.  I don't suppose anyone noticed.
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Re: Covid 19

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My mistake Dennis, I was under the impression it was worse over there.
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Re: Covid 19

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Also... you'll really know if this was a drummed-up political crisis if the CDC issues guidance to reduce the # of allowed PCR amplification cycles.
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Re: Covid 19

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Coder, You lost me on that one-line post just now.

As Dennis said, we just wear masks, keep 2M distant from others and observe the 'traffic light' system when entering some stores which have limited space inside.
No-0ne has a 'Covid passport' here yet. Double immunised has not conferred any privilege on me/us and we observe the restrictions like everyone else.

Unlike the UK, we still have closed pubs & restaurants here, which is a pain.

Curiously we have been allowed practice dentistry throughout the crisis and we have never been busier. Furthermore, in all that time meeting so many people at VERY close quarters I haven't seen anyone who has had Covid.

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Re: Covid 19

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There have been some concerns raised over false positives - the more times you run a sample through a pcr test, the greater likelihood you will be detecting covid from the reference sample and not the collected specimen. The exact technical details - would have to re-research what I read - but if the CDC changes those rules *now* it would be highly suspect.

And in other news, Indiana has a COVID lottery going on right now - from what I heard on the radio, if you get the shot you will be entered to win $1,000,000!
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Re: Covid 19

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Coder wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:35 pm And in other news, Indiana has a COVID lottery going on right now - from what I heard on the radio, if you get the shot you will be entered to win $1,000,000!
Here in Appalachia to get that last 45% vaccinated, just tell them it's a free methadone shot and they'll line up around the block.. :twisted:

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

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Re: Covid 19

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Coder wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 8:35 pmThere have been some concerns raised over false positives - the more times you run a sample through a pcr test, the greater likelihood you will be detecting covid from the reference sample and not the collected specimen.
This is not exactly news. False positives are part of the statistical noise that needs to be removed -- in fact, it's better to get false positives than false negatives because the ramifications of a false negative are higher.

Also, nothing man-made is 100% efficacious, hence the vaccines (any and all of them) will have a failure rate. This, too, is to be expected.

Masks are "x" percent effective -- maybe, and within a band of error -- but if the benefit beats the error then we have a "win". I completely gave up on the US CDC [1] in mid 2000 as having been politically contaminated and started looking for responsible results from the real world where science actually counts for something -- and eventually concluded that masks were, in fact, "better than nothing", not much but enough. So I went along with it -- also to avoid giving Officer Opie a reason to hassle me.

That our esteemed Dr. Kirbstone hasn't encountered a case of SARS-CoV-2 doesn't particularly surprise me because if one feels like garbage he's likely to cancel an appointment with the dentist. I personally know a few folks who have had it, and some of whom have been hospitalised for it, but they are in the minority. I tend to travel in an intelligent and careful circle, so that amplifies the effect.

I've got my second jab coming up this Friday, and two weeks after that on 2021-06-04 I will be officially declared "non-unclean" by the authorities. And you know what? I'm still going to be careful for a bit.
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote:
Because it seems like this was just a political game. And I feel like a damned fool for falling for it...

You can't sit here and tell me a virus just ceases to be an issue because suddenly there's a Democrat in the Whitehouse.
But what's interesting is how this disease, which is still claiming lives is being taken less seriously now by the very same people that were screaming the end of the world just 12 short months ago.

My issue is how this thing basically switched off practically overnight.

Yet there is still this lingering question: why is this suddenly a non-issue? It's the question that burns in my mind day and night, it has made me question my loyalties to certain causes, and has made me pull back and reconsider some older notions I've held.

There is ample evidence that both political parties in this society are corrupt and rotten down to the core.

Yes, I'm annoyed, because the same leaders that screamed the end of the world, and shut down the economy last year, the same people that had me up nights wondering if I'd be unemployed without health insurance, the same people pushed for this fuster-cluck that myself and people like me are still trying to navigate through without losing anything else are now magically saying "all systems go... as you were!"

I can't help but feel a bit like a chump right now, and I imagine I'm not the only one.

* * *

Carl, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying right now I don't trust anyone.
Note: I deleted major sections of Carl and Moon's comment to focus on the 'hoax' aspect -- any loss of content or continuity are mine, not theirs:

Hola Moon,
Sounds like a bad night. Indeed it does seem the noise level has gone down, and as in the beginning a lot of folk are hoping some magical air has entered their world and thus no more CV-19 risk, albeit that magical thinking is mostly in the US where magical thinking, hoaxes, lies, and conspiracy theories seem to reign King. I think you'd have a hard time calling all clear in India right now, or a slew of other places. And since this is still a world community, I'd be bloody careful about dropping my guard. You can pull the wool over a lot of folks eyes, and you can ignore reality at your peril for only so long before it comes back to bite you. I suspect the major declines in the R factor with an increasing percentage of folks vaccinated has indeed helped turn the corner in many places -- BUT, the dropping of common health protocols and assumptions of safety resulting in returns to risky behaviors in bars, restaurants and home parties will also likely create some new bubbles of infections. Let's hope they don't become new super spreader events to be overcome with new restrictions -- but I suspect they may well.
The notion that this was all some hoax or political scam presumes a level of international conspiracy that I doubt even Steven King or MT Greene could buy. Don't give up your faith -- just line up for one of those methadone shots!
Last edited by Uncle Al on Thu May 20, 2021 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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