MORAL, US politics this week

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Ray
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

Post by Ray »

I hope democracy wins out for you all.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

Post by moonshadow »

Ray wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:39 am
I hope democracy wins out for you all.
Even if it does this go 'round, we're going to have to deal with this sh!t every four years. It's so exhausting. Just give it to the son of a b!tch, so he can put this old horse out of its misery and we can get on with the task of whatever comes next.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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by crfriend » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:46 am

moonshadow wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:47 am
And I see Mr. Trump is currently doing what many expected him to do... he's trying to convince Republican states legislatures to flat out ignore the will (election outcome) of their given states and mandate their electors carry him [Trump] anyway....
In the highly unlikely event that that happens, I suspect it would be the ultimate catalyst for the country to get rid of the Electoral College once and for all.
Carl, who is gonna get rid of the EC if T does pull off this maneuver...one that has been projected for over a year as a tactic he would attempt.

Moon, wasn't the last election something of the same -- let the turkey have the helm and maybe we will either see a miracle or decide it is time for a revolution? It does not appear to have happened, the populous is still too worn out and blind -- I'm not sure of the order those come in.

Pelmet: Now wouldn't that be an interesting turn of events -- maybe long past due -- that most legitimate governments would decline to recognize the US!!!!
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Jim
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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moonshadow wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:32 am
Well, I'll say this much, pretty much all of the news outlets are buzzing with Trump's latest strategy to flat out ignore the various state's popular vote and/or kick this one to the house...

Under those circumstances, I've set my clock for 5am to get up and vote for the last time. It is a complete waste of time, this nation is about to transform into an outright authoritarian fascist dictatorship, the likes of which would be the envy of any nazi still around today.
Don't give up yet.

I still strongly suspect that the president-elect will become president on schedule. I think there is some chance that the incumbent's current behavior will be so abhorrent to a majority that more safeguards will be put in place making this sort of thing much more difficult.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Faldaguy wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:59 am
Carl, who is gonna get rid of the EC if T does pull off this maneuver...one that has been projected for over a year as a tactic he would attempt.
The saving throw here is that He still has to obey His corporate and rich masters. If He doesn't, there'll be a big state funeral, the CoT will have their martyr, and we'll have Pence on the throne.

I don't think the elites care much about the EC, but the nation as a whole is likely getting pretty well fed up with it. As I've written, that archaic institution should have been done away with in the late 1860s.

I'm hoping that all the shenanigans fail, He disappears in late January of 2021, really contracts SARS-CoV-2 and dies from it. That'll preclude another coup attempt in 2024, and the CoT will have their martyr.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

Post by moonshadow »

Jim wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:24 pm
Don't give up yet.

I still strongly suspect that the president-elect will become president on schedule. I think there is some chance that the incumbent's current behavior will be so abhorrent to a majority that more safeguards will be put in place making this sort of thing much more difficult.
Perhaps, however I'm still just so disappointed with society. Every single day I have to listen to practically EVERYONE I meet sing His praises and complain about how He is getting a raw deal!

Do understand, that in the last four years, I haven't actually spoken to ANYONE WHO ISN'T HEAD OVER HEELS IN LOVE WITH TRUMP!

I never in my life would have imagined that the people of a region and culture that seemingly were so PRO USA would be so blind to what they are supporting. What the hell is wrong with these people?

The salt in this open wound: Basically everyone admits he's "an asshole", but everyone basically says "they like it". I never would have thought that the people I have shared geography with my whole life would have such ROTTEN SOULS.

Trump may possibly disappear in January, but the religion he formed will linger for centuries, and I'm going to have to listen to pretty much everyone yearn for the "good old days of Trump" for the rest of my life.

I really miss when the locals used to just praise Jesus. I don't know if Jesus ever existed or not, but at least he was more admirable than what we have now...
crfriend wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:36 pm
I'm hoping that all the shenanigans fail, He disappears in late January of 2021, really contracts SARS-CoV-2 and dies from it.
Hear hear!
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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moonshadow wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:03 pm
The salt in this open wound: Basically everyone admits he's "an asshole", but everyone basically says "they like it". I never would have thought that the people I have shared geography with my whole life would have such ROTTEN SOULS.
I'd not say "rotten", but rather "misguided" or perhaps "lost". They've lost their way due to a continual onslaught of untruth, deception, and slight of hand. Real rotters are quite rare "in the wild" because they tend not to survive very long. In Inuit parlance, "they get pushed off the ice when nobody's looking".

Don't be too hard on your fellow man. If he's sold his soul to his devil, that's his business and a decision he'll have to live with and take to the grave with him; so long as he doesn't do you ill, try to treat him well. As Samuel Clemens once wrote, "Always do the right thing. I'll gratify a few and astonish the rest."
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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crfriend wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:14 pm
moonshadow wrote:The salt in this open wound: Basically everyone admits he's "an asshole", but everyone basically says "they like it". I never would have thought that the people I have shared geography with my whole life would have such ROTTEN SOULS.
I'd not say "rotten", but rather "misguided" or perhaps "lost". They've lost their way due to a continual onslaught of untruth, deception, and slight of hand. Real rotters are quite rare "in the wild" because they tend not to survive very long. In Inuit parlance, "they get pushed off the ice when nobody's looking".
Well, you're probably right. Despite how I carry on here on skirtcafe, I usually don't rant this much in the outside world, and I'm generally pretty kind and understanding towards everyone. I suppose I blow off a lot more steam here on the Cafe than I probably should, though the reason is, again, because on the outside, it seems everyone is intoxicated on the Trumpahol, and it's a waste of time and exceedingly frustrating to get a point across to those people.

Every day, I vow to cease my complaining and ranting, but yet every day, American society manages to find a new low that I wouldn't have thought possible, and I feel the need to vent out the frustration... but to whom?

Skirtcafe is about the only place left, that I'm aware, both online and off where people can still engage in intelligent conversation, everything else is just a proverbial sewer, from Facebook to the local Church and everything in between.... just a sewer.

I can't even have a relationship with my father anymore. He absolutely refuses to discuss anything other than his outright hatred for anything and anyone with a "D" before the name. I tell him about my day, or a challenge I'm facing in my life, or an accomplishment, he just blows it off and starts complaining about Biden, Northam, Pelosi, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, etc... I mean, it's like I never even said anything.

I finally blew up at him last week, and we had a very brief shouting match where he hung up on me and vowed to never call again, to which I pinched in a "GOOD!" before the call ended...

That's also been a stick in my craw these last several days.... Another family busted up over the CoT..... *spit*
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Jim
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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moonshadow wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:03 pm

Perhaps, however I'm still just so disappointed with society. Every single day I have to listen to practically EVERYONE I meet sing His praises and complain about how He is getting a raw deal!
You may need to move out of Trump country. Look at a county by county election result map and pick a location you might like. My county in rural Illinois went 60% for Trump, so there was no problem finding people who understood what a disaster he was.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Moon,

I am so sorry for you that you have a father who applies political one-sidedness to (it seems) every subject or arguement, and that you have failed to find common ground.

There are so many other really important issues out there.

I have three siblings, all brothers, one of whom is some 13 years my junior and our eldest sibling is 20 years his senior. Our Dad died when I was just 29 years old and my little bro. was just 16 and still at school.

Only two days ago our 2nd eldest told us he had been diagnosed with bone/blood Cancer and at best has only a limited time left. Our eldest bro. had a stroke some years ago leaving him literally speechless, so for info. on our Dad's colourful exploits not divulged to him, our little Bro. has turned to me for a lot of stuff about Dad which I might have in the memory bank. Dad died 49 years ago, far too young.

Little Bro. says that he never had an opportunity to talk to Dad as an adult and he missed out on a raft of anecdotes revealed by him to us elder bros., mostly when he was in cheery form celebrating some win at golf or the races, both of which he was passionate about.

So I am about to collate a lot of stuff on our departed Dad, 99% of it really amusing anecodotes,but a few firghtening ones from the 20s in Dublin when he was a Medical student and the place was 'ruled' by the British Black and Tans. Perhaps we were lucky to have had him....


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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Here's an interesting article: https://theconversation.com/can-america ... ump-148239. I don't know anything about the leanings of "The Conversation" but it adds to the debate. The latest farcical events of the Trump campaign just brings more ridicule upon him. Do you think there's any mileage in the rumour that He will attack Iran in order to delay things or make a transition more difficult? Surely the military wouldn't fall for such a tactic? Indeed, if Trump were to order such an attack could the military refuse such an order or stall for sufficient time until the transition happens? Persona;;y, the more Trump is distracted by this voting fraud nonsense the less mental ( assuming He has any ) effort He has for dabbling in other things.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

Post by moonshadow »

Kirbstone wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:52 am
I am so sorry for you that you have a father who applies political one-sidedness to (it seems) every subject or arguement, and that you have failed to find common ground.

There are so many other really important issues out there.
I doubt it's the last time I ever speak with him, but really, our relationship has been on very thin ice since 2013 when we used to live with us, and while here, caused a lot of problems between Amber, Jenn, and myself. We finally had to send him on his way in late 2013. It took about six months before we started speaking again, and then right about the time we started really getting along, 2016 happened, and His Royal Highness acsended the throne, and I watched and listened as my father very quickly gave himself over to ultra-conservatism, and just generally became a jerk.

It started to heal a little bit over the years as I finally just started to adjust and accept him for who he is, but here we are in 2020 and history repeats itself.... again.

If we ever do get together again, I've got a very strong notion to go skirted... because why the hell not? He's not going to change, and if we work it out it's going to be because I was the one to accept him.

If I love him enough to deal with his bullsh!t, he should do the same with me...

... or he can permanently disown me... honestly I'm getting to the point where I really don't give a damn.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Sinned wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:12 pm
Here's an interesting article: https://theconversation.com/can-america ... ump-148239. I don't know anything about the leanings of "The Conversation" but it adds to the debate. The latest farcical events of the Trump campaign just brings more ridicule upon him. Do you think there's any mileage in the rumour that He will attack Iran in order to delay things or make a transition more difficult? Surely the military wouldn't fall for such a tactic? Indeed, if Trump were to order such an attack could the military refuse such an order or stall for sufficient time until the transition happens? Persona;;y, the more Trump is distracted by this voting fraud nonsense the less mental ( assuming He has any ) effort He has for dabbling in other things.

One thing to note here, is America has never really been a liberated, "free" nation. To state that starting in the 1980s we started a downward trajectory towards authoritarianism doesn't seem to hold water... The U.S. had always been some level of authoritarian, and oppressive.

All in all, many things have improved over the last 50 years, but what Trump represents is a regression back to those days, wiping away all of the progress that was made since the 1950s.

And progress it was, American life pretty much SUCKED for everyone unless you were a rich white man, or affiliated with one.

The good news is in 2020, Americans by and large rose up and said "enough is enough" and voted the tyrant out. The question is, will he actually leave office, or will he find some constitutional technicality and squat in the White House for 4 more years or longer?
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Sinned wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:12 pm
Here's an interesting article: https://theconversation.com/can-america ... ump-148239. I don't know anything about the leanings of "The Conversation" but it adds to the debate.
I'd call that a must-read because it hits all the high points. It properly calls out the bald fact that what's happening now has been building for decades, calls out corruption at the highest levels, calls out the fact that the populace has been deliberately dumbed-down so it'll believe anything fed to it (no matter how preposterous), and calls out the fact that there's precious little left to fight for in the United States, and even less hope for a promising future.

If you can't deal with bleak, don't read it. The CoT contingent won't bother (or it'll get branded as "fake news") and the cognoscenti will get it and agree, but will also agree that there's little to no recourse to it possible.

On invading Iran... That'd be a tough sell. Since the US walked away from the nuclear agreement with Iran we have no idea whether they have a workable, deliverable, weapon or not. If they do, it'll probably arrive in the back of a pickup truck, unheralded until it goes off. I don't think the Israeli State would like that one bit. It's also a little bit too close to Russia, so having the US military there won't amuse the Russians either. Also, it's another "war" in which there is no exit strategy, like Iraq, and we see what happens with those. I suspect the military leadership will stall if it gets the order and can stall. Or, the oligarchs will solve the Trump Problem the easy way leaving Pence on the throne and the CoT with their martyr. The stakes are too high and the profits too small to warrant such a move.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

Post by rode_kater »

From this side of the pond it's been fairly clear for more than a decade that the US has serious issues. The whole period where Obama has to deal with a Republican Senate was a farce and it's only gone downhill from there. The American constitutional set up has not changed in a very long time and is clearly no longer fit for purpose. As with agile software development, you have to regularly be able to reflect on how the system is working and make improvements continuously, or eventually you will get stuck.

I wouldn't trust Trump as far as I could throw him, but I have sufficient trust in the leadership of the army there to avoid do crazy things at the last moment. The "I was just following orders" defence is long gone.

I can understand a large chunk of the American population cheering for someone to tear down the system. But that even amongst the elected representatives there is no realisation that something is breaking down is fairly shocking. The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. But where are all the good men?
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