Skirts are for comfort, not about sex.

[imadube]

Seems that I can search here and find the European replies to US based ideas are much more arrogant then to other European based ideas.
I am not sorry I upset you to the point you had to ramble on, in fact most people get over defensive when a point made makes thier view feel threatened. Now why would you feel that way if you don't care what others think.
I was refered to a post about a fashion designer that went out of business because people are not ready for men to wear such garb as you discribe. Well as an American with many years living in Europe and many places in America - what I have posted as my view would make acceptance much easier and may open some markets for designers.
You do have a chilish arrogance when you mention my typing, I guess you never miss type a single thing, miss a turn, forget your turn blinker or misplace you wallet. Oh for us all to be so perfect.
So many people here mention being accepted, but then many say they don't care - I think many may be to confused to understand true choice in the world society today.

[davereporter]

Steve D, I don't believe from the tone of Imadube's posts that he was professing to tell us what to do. I understand that he was telling us what his research found - it is always interesting to do research and summarise the results.

By the sound of it Imadube, you are a newbie to skirtsmanship? Correct?

As you visit more sites you will find that opinions on men's skirts cover a broad spectrum from those who would only ever wear kilts with sporran (and consider that to be the only masculine way to wear a skirt) through to those who have no problem wearing tutus and other more adventurous attire. The challenge is finding what you feel comfortable in and what is acceptable to your family and friends.

Feel free to bounce ideas off the other guys here, that's what we are here for.

Personally I am more conservative and stick to a fairly limited range of styles - my choice.
My favourite is the ubiquitous denim knee length skirt with a slight A line. I also have a brown canvas lava lava (wrap skirt) and a more practical blue polyester wrap. I have a black zip front A line skirt, a grey pencil skirt (limits movement but good to wear), an unplaided tartan wrap (I personally don't like plaids) and a long ankle length black elastic skirt. I am about to make a black linen skirt with zip front, pockets and a slight A.

From my experience I like skirts with a belt, zip front and find pockets really useful.

I have tried and discarded - a plaid denim skirt (thought it looked far too young for me), a long corduroy skirt (the kick on the bottom part made it look feminine on me), long pencil skirts (unable to move aargh!), long A line skirts (made me look like my nana) a back zip skirts (no pockets, no belt and the back zip is a pain to do up), mini skirts (too hard to wear without getting arrested for indecent exposure:) ) Having said that I know that guys around here wear those type of skirts and probably look great.

It all depends on your body type and what you are prepared to sacrifice for the freedom to wear skirts. Personally I don't wear skirts in public with certain family members because it freaks them out but they will accept me wearing skirts at home. To me my family is more important than the right to wear a skirt. Your family might be OK with the wrap skirt or a denim skirt but freak out at you rocking up to a lunch wearing a pink tutu. For some people the freedom is more important and they are prepared to sacrifice criticism or relationships for the skirt. Free choice.

Good luck with your skirt wearing and as my sewing teacher says - it costs nothing to try the garments on and the more you try on the more you learn about fit and what works for you. At some department stores I will load up a trolley with dozens of outfits and just try them on - usually only one or two garments fit and look good. It is just probability.

Dave

[Sashi]

Disclaimer: The following comments are based purely on my personal opinion. I don't expect anyone to follow them, I'm just placing them here to give my opinion on the subject. I'm not trying to attack anyone, and if you feel it is an attack I'm sorry and it wasn't my intention.

When shopping for skirts, this works best if you are wearing one out, go ahead ask the sales girl for a little help, they would LOVE to help dress you up - it is a girls favorite past time. My wife really loves checking out outfit styles for me. I think it goes back to childhood and playing dress up.

Aww, that's so untrue! Well, at least in some cases on both sides of the gender barrier. Not all girls like dress up, while some guys like dress up. If you've ever played with action figures that had clothes, or snuck some time with your sister's Barbie's and had fun with different outfits, you've played a form of dress up. I personally would love to just go out and try on any number of outfits, particularly extravagant or flamboyant ones, just for the fun of it. If only liking things like that were considered "acceptable" for males, I'd probably have realized that when I was just a little kid rather than when I started pushing my own personal boundaries as a teen/preteen.

Additional thoughts to mens skirt fashion, (remember please I get these thoughts from viewing posts and many pictures)
Make up, unless you have a skin problem that requries a cover up - Leave the make up to the ladies. Men in drag, tranvestities, gays and the like use ladies make up... It does not work on guys.

Painted nails - Ok if you are wanting nice looking nails then I suggest useing a clear enamel after grooming you nails to a reasonable masculine length. The colors and designs put way too much woman into your look.

Now while I have no experience with makeup and painted nails (the mold society has formed for me is beginning to crack), I still don't see why they can't be acceptable for straight men, or even all men in general. How about the goth scene? Males wear various types of makeup/nail polish (albeit from a very narrow range of colors/types) and get away with it.

If you want people to accept something like that as being okay for men you have to push it as such. If someone says you are something you're not (gay, cross dresser, etc.), so what? Their words can't harm you if you don't let them get to you, and if they are a perfect stranger their unfriendly words mean even less as you'll most likely never see them again. Anyways, why should women have a monopoly on something like that? "It doesn't work on men," is one of the arguments people use for men wearing skirts, so why sink to that level? While no one ever says you have to accept it as something for you, why would your thoughts on it have to apply to ever other man who wears a skirt?

Ear rings - IF YOU WON'T WEAR THEM IN JEANS - DO NOT wear them in a skirt. Hanging styles really need to be avoided. I know there are many places to get ear rings and many different styles, but So many are ladies ONLY.
In fact all these thoughts can be applied to one simple rule:
IF YOU WON'T WEAR THEM IN PANTS - DO NOT wear them in a skirt.

Once again, my personal opinion strays from your's on this subject. What makes them "ladies only?" Because they hang down? Because they have a certain color or look? That makes me think of how people always tell males you can't wear pink or skirts or whatever else because it is for the "ladies only." To me, as long as it isn't designed for a specific aspect of the female body that men don't have, why should it be "ladies only?" It's just about the same as most of society, except for the allowance of skirts being okay for men. Of course, it's also your own personal opinion and I respect that. I just personally disagree with it.

Just my thoughts, but I do hope they spark your sence to be accepted as a real male with fashion sence and for stalls public view as we are all gays.

I do have thougts of how to make male skirts and fashion more public appealing and affordable but unfortunately I am an average American with average income and the average bill to pay ratio so I guess I can not into that area and must sercume to the womans rack of "unisex" looking skirts.

Nothing wrong with people who are gay. It's not really a bad thing as more of a misconception, to me at least. Once people get it in their mind you can be straight and like wearing a skirt (or dress!), that misconception will slowly fade away from most people. Also, why just stick to the "unisex" looking clothing? If you find something you like and it's not "unisex", then to hell with the public opinion! :ninjajig:

Perhaps it's more of a, "If you don't wear such accessories as yourself, in your everyday life, don't wear them whilst skirted." That'd fit a bit more closely.

Yes, I like that, that's definitely a good rule to follow.

[iain]

I think Imadube's points are very clear: he feels everyone should abide by his ideas and accept them, but they're presented in the spirit of my way or the highway, which people usually object to unless they already fully agree.

I couldn't start the sound on Imadube's song site, and being a musician I wish him well, but the words would certainly have limited record sales to America.

What's happening on this site in response to his arrival reminds me of a gritty film clip in Fahreinheit 911 in which a young, well-meaning American soldier is caught up in a vicious firefight while patrolling a village in the middle east. "I don't get it," he drawls. "Don't these people want to be liberated?"

[imadube]

Here we go bash the American
You have no idea what I have done in my life to recieve acceptance at just being born, I speak from experiance in lifes general arena. No matter what Hollywood puts out, no matter what commericals put out - no matter where you go, if there is the slightest bit of "woman" in your attair - Men wearing skirts or dress will have a stigma of Homosexual tendencies.
That is why it was stated in the news in Washington state that guys in Utilikilts where "overstating" thier manhood bu wear heavy boots and not tennis shoes or loafers. Gothics are, by lifestyle, different in earrings and make up because the whole style of Gothic requires it for the look.
There are male skin type make-ups, mostly the actoring kind, that is differnet as well. But if you attempt a :ladies" look, you appear "lady".
Do women in masculine clothing "attempt" a male appearance, no the "lady" UP THE LOOK. Now in the case of Butch Dykes - oh yea they Male up - which is an example of what men in "lady" look is doing as well.
In the days males were wearing skirts by what ever the culture called them - I do not believe they looked like ladies - imagine a Roman Warrior in drag.
I know none of you will attempt so understand my view - which is my view - so I will be leaving this group as I feel I have to accept YOUR views or always be the victim of your bashing.

[imadube]

As for my music, if anyone would like to get an idea of the songs but is having streaming trouble I can send you a part of each. If you like them, please buy the full song from the site.
Forever An American, sorry it is about being American - so yes it's meant for American sales.

[iain]

I don't think that's very fair--whether you're an American or not, you can't assume everyone will just bow down and accept your opinions.

It's not American bashing--it's just standing up for what we might believe in and not automatically accepting someone else's idea of what is right.

There is a difference! You're welcome here like anyone else, just don't expect people to accept everything. I also protest about stuff like SUVs and I get shouted down by those who disagree..that's part of the life of a forum: you have to accept it's already a democracy.

[Bravehearts.us]

I must be going blind. I can’t find the link to the music anywhere in this thread. Can someone please post the link? Being a composer myself, I would like to hear his music.

[imadube]

http://www.soundclick.com/americanpatriotwriter

[Bravehearts.us]

Here we go bash the American
You have no idea what I have done in my life to recieve acceptance at just being born, I speak from experiance in lifes general arena. No matter what Hollywood puts out, no matter what commericals put out - no matter where you go, if there is the slightest bit of "woman" in your attair - Men wearing skirts or dress will have a stigma of Homosexual tendencies.
That is why it was stated in the news in Washington state that guys in Utilikilts where "overstating" thier manhood bu wear heavy boots and not tennis shoes or loafers. Gothics are, by lifestyle, different in earrings and make up because the whole style of Gothic requires it for the look.
There are male skin type make-ups, mostly the actoring kind, that is differnet as well. But if you attempt a :ladies" look, you appear "lady".
Do women in masculine clothing "attempt" a male appearance, no the "lady" UP THE LOOK. Now in the case of Butch Dykes - oh yea they Male up - which is an example of what men in "lady" look is doing as well.
In the days males were wearing skirts by what ever the culture called them - I do not believe they looked like ladies - imagine a Roman Warrior in drag.
I know none of you will attempt so understand my view - which is my view - so I will be leaving this group as I feel I have to accept YOUR views or always be the victim of your bashing.

I already understand your view. It’s something that I’ve talked about here more than once. Yes you do have to accept other’s views here just like you want yours to be accepted. That doesn’t mean you need to adopt someone else’s view. To trade thoughts and ideas and value our differences is how we grow. To stomp off because you don’t like what someone said cuts yourself and others off from trading those thoughts and ideas. You can’t expect people to want to be civil when you label others with slang. When you call someone a Dyke, that's what you are doing.
Thanks for the link.

[imadube]

As for the comments, I do not expect people to "obey" me. However the arrogant, condencending remarks made torwards my posts cause me distress, I have worked with many people from many different nations and understanding different views is what I have come acustom too. However I have also learned that arrogant people will do what ever they wish to make sure they are "right". Even go over board to make the point and "show" everyone - pointing at the flaws of others" how right they are.
I tend to avoid arrogance all together.

Beside only a few people here gave my points merit, the rest are arrogantly laughing and making point of showing they feel they are superior. With that in mind, read the replies from my point.
Even by non-judgmental standards I have adapted while living in several European countries, "womanizing ones self" has "signs" you can easily see.

[Departed Member]

I already understand your view. It’s something that I’ve talked about here more than once. Yes you do have to accept other’s views here just like you want yours to be accepted. That doesn’t mean you need to adopt someone else’s view. To trade thoughts and ideas and value our differences is how we grow. To stomp off because you don’t like what someone said cuts yourself and others off from trading those thoughts and ideas.

I'm not sure I understand Imadube's apparent paranoia/insecurity with being American. The impression I get, is that the gentleman is not a 'natural-born' citizen of the USA. So very quick to infer that everyone is 'against him' (Quote: "I know none of you will attempt so understand my view - which is my view - so I will be leaving this group as I feel I have to accept YOUR views or always be the victim of your bashing."). Quite frankly, I'm (for once) rather offended by that statement. I happen to agree with the thrust of his (admittedly, rather over-the-top) arguments. Oh, and I just happen to be British, Mr Imadube. Perplexed I might be on occasions with the use of 'American English', but I don't go slagging off a complete continent because some individuals may think differently to myself! Present your arguments without venom. Cut the antagonism. You might just get to like it here!

You can’t expect people to want to be civil when you label others with slang. When you call someone a Dyke, that's what you are doing.

Gonna disagree here, though! Quite a number of lesbians are actually quite 'comfortable' with the term "Dyke". My wife's boss is a self-proclaimed "Dyke" (she doesn't look butch - far from it!). Try 'jumping in' to protect her feelings with PC rhetoric, and you'll get short shrift! If you're going to present yourself in a stereotypical manner, then it goes with the territory. Similarly, Mr Imadube's assertion that if you adopt 'lady-like' manners/styles/accoutrements, then you're well on the way down the CD road - as far as Joe Public is concerned - stands.

[binx]

My oh my...so sensitive. Bashing?? If you cannot accept others' opinions and objections, you must be here only to peddle your wares. We have been here many years and have been through these discussions many times. If you feel that you've been through so much tribulations whilst being skirted, you should share them with others that have yet to be out and about. Your grammar and spelling do indeed help to express yourself, as it appears that you are too quick to opine without giving much thought to what you're attempting to convey.

binx

[Bravehearts.us]

I have read the replies. I’ve read every post in this thread more than once. You sound like someone who has a lot to share and I think it’s a loss to those who are not willing to take it in and digest it. Many of these guys know me well enough to know I don’t like sarcasm and name calling. And some of the comments in response to your posts were good until they couldn’t resist putting in that little nip of sarcasm at the end. It’s not the end of the world either. I must have said this a hundred times but it’s good to keep remembering that when we communicate, we tell all kinds of things about our self and very little about anyone else. And if someone doesn’t understand what we are trying to communicate, then we’re the ones who are not communicating it, are we.

[Bravehearts.us]

I'm not sure I understand Imadube's apparent paranoia/insecurity with being American. The impression I get, is that the gentleman is not a 'natural-born' citizen of the USA. So very quick to infer that everyone is 'against him' (Quote: "I know none of you will attempt so understand my view - which is my view - so I will be leaving this group as I feel I have to accept YOUR views or always be the victim of your bashing."). Quite frankly, I'm (for once) rather offended by that statement. I happen to agree with the thrust of his (admittedly, rather over-the-top) arguments. Oh, and I just happen to be British, Mr Imadube. Perplexed I might be on occasions with the use of 'American English', but I don't go slagging off a complete continent because some individuals may think differently to myself! Present your arguments without venom. Cut the antagonism. You might just get to like it here!


Gonna disagree here, though! Quite a number of lesbians are actually quite 'comfortable' with the term "Dyke". My wife's boss is a self-proclaimed "Dyke" (she doesn't look butch - far from it!). Try 'jumping in' to protect her feelings with PC rhetoric, and you'll get short shrift! If you're going to present yourself in a stereotypical manner, then it goes with the territory. Similarly, Mr Imadube's assertion that if you adopt 'lady-like' manners/styles/accoutrements, then you're well on the way down the CD road - as far as Joe Public is concerned - stands.

It’s name calling just like calling someone a fag. It’s offensive to others even if it’s not to her.