2003 revisited

[Barleymower]

https://forums.thefashionspot.com/threa ... rts.51741/

I look most days to see if there's any progress on the MIS front. I thought instead I would look at life for MIS 20 years ago on the street.
Here's an article from 2003 where Michael Brick spends the day in a skirt in New York to gauge the reaction. It's a publicity stunt for the Costume Institute at the Metropolitan Museum of Art opened a display called "Bravehearts: Men in Skirts," documenting the absence of reciprocity in the borrowing of clothing styles across gender lines.
Above the cat calling and the teasing there are lots of interesting comments after the article from 2003 which show how far we have come eg:
Men wore skirts before women.
We want equality!
Its hard to distinguish if its "fashion" or "fetish".
No men in skirts! The whole metrosexual thing is too femme by far. Manly men, please.
No such thing as dressing as your sex much anymore.

People felt exactly the same 20 years ago but attitudes have moved forward.

​

[crfriend]

People felt exactly the same 20 years ago but attitudes have moved forward.

Likely one of the reasons that attitudes have shifted is because of guys just like us who go out on the street everyday, wearing what we like, and not making a big deal about it. Yes, we stick out, but because of our nature we also blend in somewhat and become accepted in our communities. It takes stamina, and it takes perseverance -- but it can, and does happen. We can be accepted as perfectly normal members of our communities.

The battle will not be won by starlets, celebrities, or jocks. It'll be won by little guys like us who have the will and the strength to persevere in the face of adversity. It's just a damn shame that so much of that adversity comes from our female "other halves".

[Barleymower]

There are those who would have us believe the whole LGBTQIA+ movement has allowed this to happen. They are not promoting MIS. It's not happening and if anyone is making it happen it's us. We need some good PR to speed things up.

I glad I've got the courage to go out there, otherwise I'm sure I would be waiting a long time to be invited.

[STEVIE]

I glad I've got the courage to go out there, otherwise I'm sure I would be waiting a long time to be invited.

Probably around the 12th of never BM.
Steve.

[skirtyscot]

My goodness, that is the thread that refuses to die, it's been going for 19 years! The comments do seem to get more accepting over the years. There are still a good few people against the idea, but the abusive remarks have petered out, and there are more "why not, if you want to" comments.

While I agree that the whole LBGTQ+ thing is fighting a different fight from us, I think they have helped us by exposing the trousered hordes to the idea that some people are not like them, and they shouldn't be abused or ridiculed for it.

[Grok]

Likely one of the reasons that attitudes have shifted is because of guys just like us who go out on the street everyday, wearing what we like, and not making a big deal about it. Yes, we stick out, but because of our nature we also blend in somewhat and become accepted in our communities. It takes stamina, and it takes perseverance -- but it can, and does happen. We can be accepted as perfectly normal members of our communities.

Indeed. Now...this is hard to quantify. If we are accepted as okay members of our communities, then we might become an inspiration for other men. Who, in turn, might become accepted and themselves inspire still further men.

I don't know...is this how change reaches a critical mass?

[crfriend]

I don't know...is this how change reaches a critical mass?

I don't know either. In essence we're running an experiment, not in the sterile world of the Ivory Tower, but in the Real World -- which is the confusing and altogether messy place where actual people live, dwell, and interact.

But least we're doing something instead of passively lying down and waiting for "it" to happen.

[Grok]

The comments do seem to get more accepting over the years. There are still a good few people against the idea, but the abusive remarks have petered out, and there are more "why not, if you want to" comments.

Perhaps it is due to people getting used to an idea? When I was a small boy it was inconceivable that a cis/hetero male would be interested in trying a skirt.

[Barleymower]

There is a lot of ground to cover yet and a few battles to be won.
Radical feminists won't rest until men are crushed under their idealistic boots.
MIS confused with mtf trans women - I got called 'luv' in screwfix yesterday. I said nothing but was visibly p#ssed off and he changed his tune.
Rampant wokeism - whatever that is?

We are doing the best thing possible that's going out there and just acting normal. They'll get used to it.

[crfriend]

[...] MIS confused with mtf trans women - I got called 'luv' in screwfix yesterday. I said nothing but was visibly p#ssed off and he changed his tune.

This one's a bit of a minefield, and we ought to be careful with it. One of the guys at my local liquor store is in the process of "transitioning", has been on hormones for quite a while, and the resulting changes are now remarkably evident. What's (s)he choose for attire? V-neck t-shirts and shredded leggings. Thus, admittedly based on a sample size of one, I suspect that MtF individuals will likely gravitate to the current women's "fashions", sadly including the grunge look. I suspect that skirts may be fast becoming extinct in the wild.

I do need to have a word with one of the guys I drink with at my local who was slagging off on the chap at the liquor store a couple of weeks back, and the rather funny contrast came to mind that here he is moderately objecting to that guy and yet he was swilling beer with me. Sooner or later when the time is right I'll point out that bit of humour.

Why do women go out of their way to look like garbage because of the way they dress? I got a bit of a lesson on that from one of my women friends a month or so ago where a guy across the bar sent her a quite explicit text about her boobs. She was positively furious, and I don't blame her -- and she dresses like a rag-doll in shredded denim and sweatshirts. I was decidedly miffed as well because men should not behave that way in public. What has happened to society? (And not a one of us is a teenager any more -- that is decades in the past.)

[STEVIE]

My goodness, that is the thread that refuses to die, it's been going for 19 years!

Now that I think about it, I saw the original article before I came to the cafe.

In essence we're running an experiment, not in the sterile world of the Ivory Tower, but in the Real World

Yes, and Quatermass would just love us to bits.

When I was a small boy it was inconceivable that a cis/hetero male would be interested in trying a skirt.

It was, but I did it all by myself at age 5. I guess I started my own experiment by dreaming the impossible dream.

We are doing the best thing possible that's going out there and just acting normal. They'll get used to it.

They do, that I can vouch for!

Steve.

[new2skirts]

The comments do seem to get more accepting over the years. There are still a good few people against the idea, but the abusive remarks have petered out, and there are more "why not, if you want to" comments.

Perhaps it is due to people getting used to an idea? When I was a small boy it was inconceivable that a cis/hetero male would be interested in trying a skirt.

People just see a guy in a skirt, shrug their shoulders and carry on with their day. With the advent of LGBT, many won't go out of the way to be abusive. Though I noticed more manskirt sightings in London than before just this year (and not kilts). One guy in a black skirt striding through the City (financial district) a mini skirted student in Kings Cross, and a man in a long flowing blue skirt in North London just this week.

Also see the skirted ensembles the likes of Gucci, Dior etc churn out most fashion shows, mean it's more commonplace. The ones against it may be your conservative keyboard warriors, but they would probably keep quiet if they passed you in the street

[STEVIE]

In 2003 I was still labouring under the "pass as a female" delusion.
This would have seemed impossible, an enjoyable dinner with colleagues and excuse for some gladrags too.

[Kirbstone]

Interesting pic. Stevie, but in my book the beard gives your '[rad-fem hate-speed redacted]' away, despite the gladrags. At my height and with sparse hair, any illusion of 'passing' never occurred to me, even though I crossdressed quite a bit then. My outside sorties were all nocturnal, A/ to avoid crowds and B/ to avoid scrutiny, but it was fun at the time. I was living mostly alone in Germany....late 80s early 90s. No internet and items were mostly mail-ordered from published catalogues.

Things are different now, with several family and descendants living close.

Tom

[TSH]

https://forums.thefashionspot.com/threa ... rts.51741/

I look most days to see if there's any progress on the MIS front. I thought instead I would look at life for MIS 20 years ago on the street.
Here's an article from 2003 where Michael Brick spends the day in a skirt in New York to gauge the reaction. It's a publicity stunt for the Costume Institute at the Metropolitan Museum of Art opened a display called "Bravehearts: Men in Skirts," documenting the absence of reciprocity in the borrowing of clothing styles across gender lines.
Above the cat calling and the teasing there are lots of interesting comments after the article from 2003 which show how far we have come eg:
Men wore skirts before women.
We want equality!
Its hard to distinguish if its "fashion" or "fetish".
No men in skirts! The whole metrosexual thing is too femme by far. Manly men, please.
No such thing as dressing as your sex much anymore.

People felt exactly the same 20 years ago but attitudes have moved forward.

Have they, though? It's hard to tell.

Regardless, this should've been happening 20 years ago, instead of within the last two, three, or whatever years. It's bad enough certain male celebrities (i.e. Brad Pitt) get shamed for wearing a skirt — as if somehow advocating for and supporting people to wear all types of clothing, no matter their sex/gender, is somehow being "woke" or some form of "humiliation ritual", but reading these comments on this very thread and taking a glance on the first page of the thread you linked tells me that even the attitudes aren't any different. Some are supportive, many are fueled by ignorance and hypocrisy. It's amazing how people still don't understand the irony right in front of their faces. It's more of a exposure deal to me, rather than a shift in perspective.

This comment caught my eye:

The whole metrosexual thing is too femme by far.

Right, because this is DEFINITELY feminine:


I know this was nearly 20 years ago, but it doesn't make it any less stupid (and wrong).