That Damn Denim

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
Coder
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by Coder »

I don't quite see denim as a uniform. It has become so ubiquitous to me that I see it as the "normal state of being". That is, to me anything other than denim is "dressing up". Perhaps that's the exact definition of a uniform?
rivegauche
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by rivegauche »

I can see why men gravitate towards denim skirts - they are perceived by wearers and those who observe them as less confrontational in gender terms than other types of skirt. I have mentioned before how I have had my colours and style professionally analysed in both male and female modes and I am a "natural classic". For me, the classic part of me rejects the casual informality of denim. I own several denim skirts and two denim dresses that I rarely wear but no male denim clothes of any kind. For me, denim reads as "lazy, can't be bothered dressing", but if it works for some people, it works for them. Just not for me. Live and let live for denim just as for skirts. Some women like to make a dress look more edgy by adding a denim jacket and some fashion writers say such a jacket is a wardrobe essential. I have never owned a denim jacket and never will.
ScotL
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by ScotL »

Coder wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:26 pm
I don't quite see denim as a uniform. It has become so ubiquitous to me that I see it as the "normal state of being". That is, to me anything other than denim is "dressing up". Perhaps that's the exact definition of a uniform?
I use the term uniform for denim tongue in cheek. It’s the “uniform” of the common man. Usually uniforms are outfits one is forced to wear because they designate some role. Most people who wear denim are not forced to by the Boss but are sort of forced to because that’s a standard look. And I feel most people are not adventurous when it comes to dressing.
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by ScotL »

rivegauche wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:01 pm
I can see why men gravitate towards denim skirts - they are perceived by wearers and those who observe them as less confrontational in gender terms than other types of skirt. I have mentioned before how I have had my colours and style professionally analysed in both male and female modes and I am a "natural classic". For me, the classic part of me rejects the casual informality of denim. I own several denim skirts and two denim dresses that I rarely wear but no male denim clothes of any kind. For me, denim reads as "lazy, can't be bothered dressing", but if it works for some people, it works for them. Just not for me. Live and let live for denim just as for skirts. Some women like to make a dress look more edgy by adding a denim jacket and some fashion writers say such a jacket is a wardrobe essential. I have never owned a denim jacket and never will.
Though I can’t see myself wearing a denim skirt, I don’t like the look, I can see why some men do. Denim, like how women make a dress “edgy”, has a tough, masculine feel mostly likely from the “who” that usually wear it. Myself, I look for more masculine looking skirts to wear. Hence why most of the skirts I’ve worn out are kilts. And the non kilt like skirts tend to not be frilly or with more feminine looking fabrics. Mine tend to have pockets cause I don’t care if the pockets break up some line. I run in Jwalking and purple rain skirts cause they look outdoorsy. And are really comfortable.
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Uncle Al
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by Uncle Al »

rivegauche wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:01 pm
I can see why men gravitate towards denim skirts - they are perceived by wearers and those
who observe them as less confrontational in gender terms than other types of skirt. <snip>
I own several denim skirts and two denim dresses that I rarely wear <snip>.
For me, denim reads as "lazy, can't be bothered dressing"<snip>
My - My - My, how history evades us. History of Denim
Origins of “Jeans” & “Denim”

Where does the word “jeans” come from?

Jeans date back to 1567 with the introduction of the word “genoese” or “genes” to describe the tough twill trousers worn by merchant sailors from the Italian coastal city of Genoa.
 
Where does the word “denim” come from?

Denim dates back to the 17th century. Created in Nîmes, France, serge de Nîmes was a cotton twill cloth made of wool and silk. It later became known simply as “denim.”
Denim is a utilitarian fabric, which helped to protect the wearer from, almost anything.
"Biker groups" chose denim for the durability of the fabric and its lower cost versus leather.
Denim is a main-stay for farmers, again for its durability.

Each fabric has its place. When worn 'out-of-place', it sticks out to the world.

Would I wear 'Denim' :?:
Yes :!:
Do I need to wear 'Denim' :?:
No :!:
(Unless I'm under the car, changing the oil or mowing the lawn.)

As for being "Lazy" when dressing, what does that person do for a living :?:
A person doesn't have to "dress to impress" every single moment in time.

I have known several people who held high-profile occupations yet, when in
their 'down-time', they enjoyed fiddling around in their flower beds, getting
their hands 'dirty'(so to speak). These people also enjoyed wood-working and
restoring 'Old" stuff(like pipe organs). Their 'choice' in clothing :?: Denim :!:

If I want to go hiking or camping, my choice would be denim. If I want to go
out to dinner, or a movie, a less-durable fabric would be my choice. I choose
the clothes that fit the occasion/function that I'm going to do.

So, don't knock denim. It has its place and function in the world where we live :D

Uncle Al
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Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on ;) )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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crfriend
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by crfriend »

ScotL wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:26 pm
Goblin Mode for those who don’t know means dressing slovenly because you want to be comfortable and don’t care how you look.
I like that notion, and will need to retain that for future reference. I'd heard the notion referred to as other things, but nothing so memorable as "goblin mode". Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
I want a world where we wear comfortable clothes that look good.
Looking good and being comfortable are in no way mutually exclusive. Far too folks understand that because of the way that society and culture has driven them.

And, you're right: the reason I detest denim so much is the fact that it's everywhere and one cannot look around and not see it. It's become a psychosis.
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by Fred in Skirts »

OK Carl, we know you hate Denim. As well as some others here. As for myself denim is a fabric I wear on occasion and do so with great enjoyment! We as men in skirts have to be much more tolerant than others if we want to be accepted in this dog eat dog world.

I wear my skirts because I enjoy the comfort and the ease of getting into and out of them. I don't care a single rats a$$ wither any one else likes it!

So wear what you want when and where you want and enjoy the freedom to do so!
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
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crfriend
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by crfriend »

Fred in Skirts wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:02 pm
So wear what you want when and where you want and enjoy the freedom to do so!
Indeed, and to crib the line from The Blues Brothers, "If the sh!t fits, wear it!" I'll not try to stop you. Not my place.

I attempt to lead by example. I had to venture south today to the northern reaches of Rhode Island to acquire a Certified Copy of my Birth Certificate today and wore my satin palazzos, a black wool waistcoat with a white dress shirt and received nothing but smiles, good advice, and courtesy. From bureaucrats. (Other drivers on the road, not so much.)

Problem is, is that Rhode Island is rather lax in maintaining road signs, and one would think that South Main Street in Woonsocket would have been so labelled. Nope. So I had to dead reckon the finding of City Hall based on tangential knowledge of the lay of the land rather than the road net. It's nice to see I can still do it.
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by STEVIE »

crfriend wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:16 pm
Indeed, and to crib the line from The Blues Brothers, "If the sh!t fits, wear it!" I'll not try to stop you. Not my place.
Nor was it my intention to denigrate denim as a fabric or its wearers when I kicked this thread off.
I was trying to explore the likelihood of denim being the miracle that would kick skirts for men into mainstream acceptance.
At the risk of repetition, I also said that the comments gave me cause to believe that the status quo is still as secure as it ever was.
All you guys that have denim skirts, are any of them designed specifically for a male body?
The two I have, certainly aren't.
Given the comments, I think I can foresee the answer.
Denim or any other fabric, I concur with Carl, fashion freedom for men is not around the corner.
It is more likely on another planet.
Steve
rivegauche
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by rivegauche »

There is always someone who seems determined to misinterpret what you say. I was not knocking denim. I actually concluded with "Live and let live for denim just as for skirts." The reality is that there are people out there (and on this site!) who perceive the fabric negatively just as there are those who embrace it. That's the way it is.
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by denimini »

STEVIE wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:47 am
All you guys that have denim skirts, are any of them designed specifically for a male body?
I am sure none of mine were designed for men but many fit so well I could not imagine anything better. There is a great variety of male body shapes, same with women. Thankfully there is a great variety of clothing styles and one doubles their chance of something fitting by ignoring those psychological aisles.
STEVIE wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:47 am
Denim or any other fabric, I concur with Carl, fashion freedom for men is not around the corner.
It is more likely on another planet.
Steve
I think that men have had clothing freedom for ages, just most don't know it or want it. In fact I consider the term "fashion freedom" an oxmoron, as fashion infers a prevailing custom that would limit freedom. Most of us here are excercising the freedom we have and are not following fashion.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by Big and Bashful »

STEVIE wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:47 am
crfriend wrote:
Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:16 pm
Indeed, and to crib the line from The Blues Brothers, "If the sh!t fits, wear it!" I'll not try to stop you. Not my place.
Nor was it my intention to denigrate denim as a fabric or its wearers when I kicked this thread off.
I was trying to explore the likelihood of denim being the miracle that would kick skirts for men into mainstream acceptance.
At the risk of repetition, I also said that the comments gave me cause to believe that the status quo is still as secure as it ever was.
All you guys that have denim skirts, are any of them designed specifically for a male body?
The two I have, certainly aren't.
Given the comments, I think I can foresee the answer.
Denim or any other fabric, I concur with Carl, fashion freedom for men is not around the corner.
It is more likely on another planet.
Steve
Steve, yes, I have four denim cargo skirts all designed and made for men. They came from Midas years ago, oh, also a Midas jeans skirt which is also denim. On my one and only decent solo sailing holiday I stopped for an overnight in Rothesay, in the morning I went to buy a breakfast in a shop (Zaveroni's I think). The woman there spotted that the skirt I was wearing was made for a male, turned out she had been a seamstress so she knew her stuff. So there is a real difference. Unfortunately for me, now that I have shrunk, they will probably never fit properly again!
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Coder
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by Coder »

STEVIE wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:47 am
I was trying to explore the likelihood of denim being the miracle that would kick skirts for men into mainstream acceptance.
At the risk of repetition, I also said that the comments gave me cause to believe that the status quo is still as secure as it ever was.
All you guys that have denim skirts, are any of them designed specifically for a male body?
The two I have, certainly aren't.
None of mine are, though I'd buy a skirtcraft skirt if it came in denim. Some of mine fit very well (Seasalt) others are cut for bigger hips (Madeleine).

I don't see denim alone garnering men's acceptance - something needs to change for guys to accept skirts and it's either going to have to be critical mass of people like us wearing what we want, or some fluke where a celebrity does something and it catches on with a younger generation.
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by ScotL »

denimini wrote:
Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:27 pm

I think that men have had clothing freedom for ages, just most don't know it or want it. In fact I consider the term "fashion freedom" an oxmoron, as fashion infers a prevailing custom that would limit freedom. Most of us here are excercising the freedom we have and are not following fashion.
Excellent point about fashion and freedom being oxymoronic. Do you think a better way to think about it is the current fashion for men is limited? In that skirts are not currently a fashion for men? Though most of us are free to wear whatever we want to, men’s fashions just don’t include skirts. At least western society men’s fashion.

Yet…

In my opinion, skirts are slowly becoming included in all mens fashions. No where near as fast as any of us want, but I’ve never seen major corporations with as many men’s skirts before this year. Sure there have been boutique places and crazy fashion houses have suggested them in the past seemingly just to build up news, but adidas? Just seems there’s a ground swell. And celebrities are wearing more than I ever remember. Coder hasn’t been fired but has had a lot of great experiences. Flbreezy and many others on here are providing recounts of experiences not of mocking but of praise and compliments. I’m encouraged.

NB: this is just my opinion and should not be interpreted as a personal attack on anyone who has expressed a contrary opinion. Any perceived slight is not intended.
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Re: That Damn Denim

Post by Grok »

"...I can see why men gravitate towards denim skirts-they are perceived by wearers and those who observe them as less confrontational in gender terms than other types of skirt..."

Perhaps we would see more worn by men if...denim MIS had a status similar to kilting-a socially acceptable, if uncommon, option.

If one were to try to market a denim skirt designed for men, one might run into a chicken or egg problem. Trying to market a product without an established demand, so losing out on the efficiencies of mass production that bring prices down. So your product has no established market, and is also expensive.

Fortunately, in the case of denim there is an option that gets around this. Converting an old pair of jeans into a jean skirt. This option requires meager sewing skills and little money. (There are a couple DIY threads in the sewing section).
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