On family and spouses "negative" reactions, emotion

[STEVIE]

This is really discussing skirt as a concept and the reactions, indeed emotions that the wearer can inspire in others.
Take the dictionaries and throw them away because what everyone "thinks" they "know" transcends and trumps all and any logic.
I will say again that I have never had a female tell me skirts were exclusive to them, indeed I have been reminded often that women wear trousers as a message of support.
Historically, Men wore skirts. Yeah, because those men knew that their skirts were not feminine in any shape or form.
The Kilt is a skirt, we know that, but countless others know equally well that it certainly does not.
From that notion, everyone will also "know"(that damn word again), why a man will choose a skirt over trousers.
He will be a hero, a pervert, a trailblazer, mad, a fashionista, fashion victim, not fit to live, gay, trans, bi and certainly not a good potential mate or parent.
I believe that "skirt" in the minds of most folks is a mixture of object and symbol which triggers all that "knowledge"
I believe that by presenting as I do, I am actually increasing the objectivity with which my clothes are viewed.
As for family, you know.
Steve.

[ScotL]

In response to certain women claiming "we are taking their skirts..."

I was unaware there weren't enough to go around...

I can't speak for everyone, but as for me, I've never knowingly taken another woman's skirt. I've always purchased mine fair and square.

Love the humor! I’m sure we are all taking this way too seriously. We ain’t stealing anything. A skirt is just an article of clothing.

[Barleymower]

Back to the point - “skirts” aren’t a women’s space, they don’t get you access to women’s feelings or thoughts or even spaces. They are clothing, and while some forms of the skirt are more feminine/woman-aligned than others, at the end of the day it is just cloth, styles evolve, and they need to get with the program .

But are skirts "just objects of clothing"? Do they have symbolism that's important to the sisterhood? I'd posit "No" on 1 and "Yes" on 2. Why? It's not about the generalities of the matter as we've seen that women generally appreciate men in skirts -- just not their men. The difference is at once subtle and profound, and needs to be dug into.

I seem to be in the midst of original research (which Wikipedia frowns seriously upon) as I attempt to pursue a romance.

On 2. No the clothes do not symbolise anything. Until this realised then there will always be a problem.

[crfriend]

I can't speak for everyone, but as for me, I've never knowingly taken another woman's skirt. I've always purchased mine fair and square.

Love the humor! I’m sure we are all taking this way too seriously. We ain’t stealing anything. A skirt is just an article of clothing.

That might be "open to question" -- or at least a heck of a lot of laughs.

A few years ago, I bought a really pretty purple-based peacock print skirt in Provincetown when I was on a sailing trip. Hilariously, one of the waitresses at my local (who has since retired) was in the same store a few hours earlier with one of here friends (firecrackers both, I'll add!) and had eyed it with intent and her pal was egging her on to "Just shut up and buy it!". A week later I'm home and show up wearing it, and the two of them recognised it -- and the grief-giving started. It takes two to tango, as is said, and I'm always up for some wordplay so it "went downhill" from there. However, it's MY skirt -- for the simple reason that, "You passed it up when it was on the peg!" I ran into them a month or so ago, and the joking about it continues.

[Barleymower]

I went to the oracle and posed the question. Are skirts symbolic of womanhood? She said "in a way yes. I am woman!". She elucidated. "A woman's life is pain, pain of monthy period, pain in childbirth. Men do not experience this pain, there is a level of sisterhood between women".
When men enter female spaces women can get sensitive and angry.

Don't shoot the messenger

I've said before, my musings why it's supported by the opposite sex until its their man, then it's NO. Others have also already hit the nail on the head.

The human race can survive this, it just takes enough men to go out there and true equality may not be far away.

[ScotL]

When it’s men versus women or women versus men, we all lose. I’ve never seen this struggle in anything but our minds. We need to be inclusive or divided we fall. Men and women can both wear skirts. But they don’t have to. It’s a choice we all should have. We really need to stop creating mythical battles of the sexes like there are secret cabals plotting for the demise of one or the other.

I ran this AM in a grey purple rain kilt. Was wonderful

[Coder]

When it’s men versus women or women versus men, we all lose. I’ve never seen this struggle in anything but our minds. We need to be inclusive or divided we fall. Men and women can both wear skirts. But they don’t have to. It’s a choice we all should have. We really need to stop creating mythical battles of the sexes like there are secret cabals plotting for the demise of one or the other.

I don’t think this discussion is about battling “them”. It’s trying to understand where they are coming from without directly interrogating them. We can’t get straightforward answers from our family/spouses - maybe they won’t be fully honest, perhaps there’s a subconscious component they aren’t even aware of.

As for secret cabals - certain terms like radfem, terf, incel, trad, etc… they aren’t great terms but they classify broad swatches of ideology, and it help frame the conversation and set expectations of thought.

[ScotL]

These terms are fringe groups. Mainstream folks aren’t in any struggle like this. We are all struggling to do well. I think when something doesn’t go our way, the current theme of blaming everyone else applies big time today.

I don’t think we could interrogate many people about it cause most people ain’t a part of anything close to it. We can blame women trying to get ahead in life as being radical feminists or just people like you and I, just trying to get ahead in life.

[pelmut]

These terms are fringe groups.

...the 10% (or less) who get 90% (or more) of the media attention.

[crfriend]

These terms are fringe groups.

...the 10% (or less) who get 90% (or more) of the media attention.

Indeed, and the ones who make 90% of the noise and put 90% of the people's teeth on edge.

Ideally, we'd be able to ignore them in the same way as we attempt to ignore the toddler throwing a temper-tantrum in the supermarket aisles; however, like the toddler, the noise is so shrill and annoying that ignoring it is impossible,

[Coder]

These terms are fringe groups.

...the 10% (or less) who get 90% (or more) of the media attention.

Indeed, and the ones who make 90% of the noise and put 90% of the people's teeth on edge.

Ideally, we'd be able to ignore them in the same way as we attempt to ignore the toddler throwing a temper-tantrum in the supermarket aisles; however, like the toddler, the noise is so shrill and annoying that ignoring it is impossible,

And this thread wasn’t really created with them in mind anyways - just an attempt to get some sense of what our family members, who object to our skirt wearing, might be subconsciously thinking. Sometimes I think - if I could only understand what they are thinking, at an emotional level, I could address/allay their fears or objections. I could meet them on the same playing field.

[Ozdelights]

And this thread wasn’t really created with them in mind anyways - just an attempt to get some sense of what our family members, who object to our skirt wearing, might be subconsciously thinking. Sometimes I think - if I could only understand what they are thinking, at an emotional level, I could address/allay their fears or objections. I could meet them on the same playing field.

As we are all different I suspect our family members also have different opinions and concerns. For my SO it seems to be the 'what will others think'. I also seek to address/allay their fears.

[pelmut]

- just an attempt to get some sense of what our family members, who object to our skirt wearing, might be subconsciously thinking.

They aren't thinking, they are feeling what the media stories scare them into feeling.  That's the problem.

[crfriend]

- just an attempt to get some sense of what our family members, who object to our skirt wearing, might be subconsciously thinking.

They aren't thinking, they are feeling what the media stories scare them into feeling.  That's the problem.

The above likely comes closer to what I was going to write earlier than I had contemplated. I was going to comment that men are not particularly used to using their emotions in the primary role, and that women are not particularly used to using their intellect in the primary role -- and the media are grandmasters at manipulating emotion, because that's how they make their nut. (The emphasis in the quote is mine.)

The above having been said, men can deploy emotions in primacy, they just tend not to do it; the converse is true for women -- capable but they don't tend to. I suspect this is the genesis of the "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus" notion. As to being a man who has deployed his emotions in primacy, see some commentary I've made in my "A Tree to Weak to Stand" thread recently.

[Sinned]

Coder, with the risk of stereotyping, my wife is a woman, naturally, and I couldn't possibly know what she is thinking. About me wearing skirts anyway. Only some opposition.