Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
Dust
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by Dust »

ScotL wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:30 pm
No violence against anyone should be tolerated regardless of perpetrators. But why are you making the “save the whales” movement imply “kill the sharks”? The world needs less negativity. And less violence against anyone.
There are feminists who have explicitly said "kill all men." The negativity is already there. I'd love to see less of it, but until the folks running these campaigns start explicitly asking for a non-gendered end to domestic violence (and more generally policing their own), I'm going to take them at their word when they run articles arguing that it's okay to hate men.
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by ScotL »

Dust wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:45 am
ScotL wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:30 pm
No violence against anyone should be tolerated regardless of perpetrators. But why are you making the “save the whales” movement imply “kill the sharks”? The world needs less negativity. And less violence against anyone.
There are feminists who have explicitly said "kill all men." The negativity is already there. I'd love to see less of it, but until the folks running these campaigns start explicitly asking for a non-gendered end to domestic violence (and more generally policing their own), I'm going to take them at their word when they run articles arguing that it's okay to hate men.
There are people who say kill all (fill in the blank) but they are a minority. I just don’t see this global radical feminist movement aimed at crushing men. I do see people upset that they get paid less, suffer sexual assault at a higher frequency, get passed over for jobs and belittle or not taken seriously. Should all people be treated the same? Of course. But are you suggesting domestic abuse advocates should be harshed on because they focus mostly on assault on women where that’s the predominant gender affected? I can see arguing they also work on all genders but why be negative? But again, this really gets away from the focus of MIS
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crfriend
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by crfriend »

ScotL wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:51 am
But are you suggesting domestic abuse advocates should be harshed on because they focus mostly on assault on women where that’s the predominant gender affected?
Men need to be very careful not to put too much credence into the language and propaganda that's being pushed in this regard. Domestic violence is very definitely a two-way street, and the actual numbers of perpetrators are just about at parity. Sometimes it's as "mild" emotional sniping and then ramps upwards through outright psy-ops and ultimately into full-blown mutual combat. And women start just as many of those incidents as guys; it's that the latter gets laughed at and played down as "weak", with the former "needing protection" as the "victim" even if it was the woman who started it. Note that emotional wounds can be more devastating than physical ones. Broken bones eventually heal; a wounded psyche might never be the same again -- and women engage in those tactics all the time.
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Coder
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by Coder »

crfriend wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:33 pm
ScotL wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:51 am
But are you suggesting domestic abuse advocates should be harshed on because they focus mostly on assault on women where that’s the predominant gender affected?
Men need to be very careful not to put too much credence into the language and propaganda that's being pushed in this regard. Domestic violence is very definitely a two-way street, and the actual numbers of perpetrators are just about at parity. Sometimes it's as "mild" emotional sniping and then ramps upwards through outright psy-ops and ultimately into full-blown mutual combat. And women start just as many of those incidents as guys; it's that the latter gets laughed at and played down as "weak", with the former "needing protection" as the "victim" even if it was the woman who started it. Note that emotional wounds can be more devastating than physical ones. Broken bones eventually heal; a wounded psyche might never be the same again -- and women engage in those tactics all the time.
Not to mention men who get abused/attacked by women - upon calling the cops - quickly find out they are initially at suspect even if the woman has no marks herself.

I try not to get too down about any of this - men have their issues, women have theirs. Each focus group (men's rights activists / feminists / etc...) will find a statistic that bolsters their claim and says "________ have it worse because ________". Up to a point it's understandable - but it gets tiring and feels childish the deeper each of those rabbit holes you go down. I've sort of unintentionally isolated myself from these issues by being a loner/introvert, and I don't see that changing much, but it's a sad place to be, but whatever.
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crfriend
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by crfriend »

Coder wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:07 pm
Up to a point it's understandable - but it gets tiring and feels childish the deeper each of those rabbit holes you go down. I've sort of unintentionally isolated myself from these issues by being a loner/introvert, and I don't see that changing much, but it's a sad place to be, but whatever.
The key is knowing enough to back away from the problem before trying to analyse what one is looking at. If you're lost in a forest, all you see is trees not the larger context -- and context in virtually all situations is critical. Perspective matters.

On self-isolation... I did that for a long time -- and largely didn't mind being cooped up in my own brain with all my technology. I was well into my 40s before I discovered that I'm a heck of a lot more social than I ever thought possible, and that's made a huge difference. For years I used to dread being around people that weren't my friends. Now, I find myself feeling a bit lonely if cooped up for more than a day or two by myself.
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ScotL
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by ScotL »

I’ve actually worked with domestic abuse people and have seen first hand the effects. To say it is an event equally suffered by both genders is just not true. To say both genders are not affected is also just not true. It’s should never happen by anyone but it is clearly an abuse suffered more by women than men. The number of events where a man is the abused or misjudged is far far lower than the number of women who are assaulted. The true numbers bear that out. In my opinion, going down the rabbit hole of a global feminazi agenda to enslave men is as foolish as it is fantasy.

Not to mention, I really feel this is NOT a topic for this cafe. The fact that women have their abuses does not mean men don’t have theirs. And most importantly, the fact we as men do not have the “right” to wear skirts is not because of the abuses heaped on either gender. It is the stupidity of gender norms. (Someone will rightly point out that this is an abuse but it markedly pales in comparison to domestic abuse to a laughable level) And changing this by arguing a farcical “men suffer domestic abuse the same as women” will be counterproductive. We need women on our side and that argument is tone deaf to their ears and mine.

Unless someone has real, factual data to prove that the domestic abuse is similar in men and women, I think we need to let this argument cease.
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by crfriend »

ScotL wrote:
Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:46 pm
I’ve actually worked with domestic abuse people and have seen first hand the effects. To say it is an event equally suffered by both genders is just not true.
Wait until it happens to you. That'll change your tune substantially.
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pelmut
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by pelmut »

Seconded.

Physical abuse is easy to see and count as a statistic, mental abuse isn't.
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by ScotL »

Wait til what happens to me? I get physically abused? Emotionally abused? How does that change the statistics? It doesn’t. It will suck, of course. But the statistics remain. Women are abused terribly more than men.

I asked for numbers to prove me wrong. You provided vague hypotheticals that neither show me data to refute what I said nor add to the discussion.

Facts are facts gentlemen. We can rail against the fact that when people complain about the patriarchy, we don’t feel a part of it since they are after the elites. But women are still the abused more than men
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Uncle Al
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by Uncle Al »

ScotL wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:35 am
<snip> Women are abused terribly more than men.
Really :?:
I asked for numbers to prove me wrong. <snip>
But women are still the abused more than men.
Again - Really :?:

Men normally do not "Report physical/mental abuse" as that is
not a 'manly' thing to do. You just tough it out and deal with it.

'Toughing it out' is what men are taught to do. That is what is EXPECTED
for men to do. Men aren't allowed to show their emotions because - -
Real - Men - Don't - Show - Emotions.

So, your "numbers" will never show the real truth of mental/emotional
abuse towards men. "They" (the numbers) don't exist - never will.

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ScotL
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by ScotL »

I work in healthcare. Women who come in, come in because they are seriously hurt. There is not an option for them not to come in. We do not see men come into the emergency rooms with anywhere near the same frequency. The rare ones who do are usually a gay couple where the male partner abused the other male partner. This is just the reality.

But I’m not going to reply or discuss this anymore as it’s clear I will never convince you despite being on the front lines. You can argue the hidden numbers but ER visits of bruised and broken do not lie.

Let’s get back to discussing men wearing skirts. Sound good?
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by moonshadow »

I once asked a local deputy about this situation... what does he do in the event he gets a domestic violence call between a man and a woman?

He said that each case is different in its own way but generally speaking, if one shows signs of being battered, the other is getting arrested, thus if a man shows signs of being battered, but the woman doesn't, the woman will be arrested. If they both do, then both get arrested.

What about these rare cases when the woman batters herself and blames it on the man? Well, he'll just have to have his day in court where the odds frankly do not favor him.

Such as it is in the justice system. It's complicated and sometimes you just get dealt a raw deal. My only advice to both men and women alike is try not to allow yourself to get into these situations to start with. Nip it in th bud. Leave... if he or she strikes you once... LEAVE. A leopard doesn't change their spots.... it WILL happen again and again.... LEAVE!

Liz knows that the first time we ever have a dispute the ends with me behind bars, regardless of the circumstances or who did what, I'm done. I refuse to live that kind of life. Thankfully it's never came to that.

Scot,

There is a cultural quirk where we generally look the other way when a man is being assaulted. Consider how many sitcoms you may have watched where a woman swats at a man, punches him, etc to the laughter of the audience.

Leanard Pitts [liberal commentator] wrote about this a long time ago, I read about it in the opinion section if the Bristol paper... here is a link to the piece:

https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2014 ... d_pit.html

I remember that incident, they are far too common... a woman goes to town on a man, and sadly, we view it as hilarious entertainment.

I rather like how he ends the article...

Don't hit girls? No.

Don't hit at all.
It's not a big deal unless you make it one.
pelmut
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by pelmut »

ScotL wrote:
Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:35 am
Wait til what happens to me? I get physically abused? Emotionally abused? How does that change the statistics?
That was exactly my point.  Physical abuse is recorded in the statstics because it is easy to report, easy to see and easy to describe in an objective manner.  Collecting statistics on emotional abuse is much more difficult because the victim has no physical objective evidence to offer.  The victim themself may have difficulty understandingwhat is happening and still less chance of convincing an official who wants nice neat descriptions to add to the statistics.

The 'facts' do not tell a true story if they are not collected equally from both sides.
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CCNC
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by CCNC »

You know guys, I started this post because it was about guys wearing skirts…..in a smaller southern town in the the US. 20 plus guys participated in the event. Everyone that was involved simply wore a skirt. Not over the top, not drag, not in a parody. The overall reaction from people was really great. No negative crappy comments, no bad situations. And just about to a every guy that did it had a “hey, skirts are comfortable and kinda cool moment.”. Now, do I think they all will convert to skirts, no. But it did help the cause this forum supports. Somehow all this got lost in the weeds based on most of the moments. That’s a bit disappointing as a new member here. Just saying
ScotL
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Re: Guys in Skirts Fundraiser

Post by ScotL »

Pelmut, you completely missed the point of my reply.

But as reality still isn’t on your side let me ask you this, what skirt have you worn recently? Have you taken part in any skirt wearing fundraisers?
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