A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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STEVIE
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by STEVIE »

rode_kater wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:11 pm
So, I don't think there will be a revolution where one day all guys think it's ok to wear a skirt. But that the generation growing up now will keep expanding and one day it will be normal and we won't even have noticed it happening.
A Tale of Teen Romance.
Their eyes meet across the crowded room, the attraction, mutual and instant.
Via the Master Barista, he has her chosen beverage delivered to her table.
His reward, a lovely smile and a cheery thank you.
He approaches the seated damsel who notices his red skirt, definitely not a muddy brown kilt!
Chat could be fine but romantic potential, no way. Could be a closet gay.
Now let's imagine that time has lapsed Wellsian fashion, 10 or 15 years.
Her thought maybe different. Wow nice taste, that skirt is just like one of mine, so cuuuute, and he has rocked the outfit perfectly.
When I think of the boys at school who wear skirts or dresses, so boring, like perfect little clones of that old dude, Pitt.
Hmmm, wonder how he looks without it. The rest we can leave to the imagination of the reader.
ScotL wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:39 pm
Historically, men once wore dresses/skirts and then didn’t.
Historically, those "skirts and dresses" were more gender and class/status specific than any modern garment.
The colour purple was exclusive to the Royal family in Tudor England. Any commoner of any gender or social status would have been guilty of treason for wearing it. The punishment was death, yeah life was simpler in those days.
Fashion, faux pas tended to occur on a rare and very often, singular basis.
Strive to show that change is not only possible but essential to allow men to escape all the macho crap that has resulted in so many more male suicides and disastrously poor mental health.
Fashion is only one aspect; whole lives are affected and ruined too.
Steve.
ScotL
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by ScotL »

crfriend wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:07 am
ScotL wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:46 pm
The only thing that would change would be more men will be wearing skirts.
And those who don't wear the prescribed lengths and colours will be still defined as deviants.
Which is presumably what men wearing skirts now are labeled, no? When more men wear skirts, I see the “deviant” label lessening, not strengthening.
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by ScotL »

STEVIE wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:15 am
rode_kater wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:11 pm
So, I don't think there will be a revolution where one day all guys think it's ok to wear a skirt. But that the generation growing up now will keep expanding and one day it will be normal and we won't even have noticed it happening.
A Tale of Teen Romance.
Their eyes meet across the crowded room, the attraction, mutual and instant.
Via the Master Barista, he has her chosen beverage delivered to her table.
His reward, a lovely smile and a cheery thank you.
He approaches the seated damsel who notices his red skirt, definitely not a muddy brown kilt!
Chat could be fine but romantic potential, no way. Could be a closet gay.
Now let's imagine that time has lapsed Wellsian fashion, 10 or 15 years.
Her thought maybe different. Wow nice taste, that skirt is just like one of mine, so cuuuute, and he has rocked the outfit perfectly.
When I think of the boys at school who wear skirts or dresses, so boring, like perfect little clones of that old dude, Pitt.
Hmmm, wonder how he looks without it. The rest we can leave to the imagination of the reader.
ScotL wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:39 pm
Historically, men once wore dresses/skirts and then didn’t.
Historically, those "skirts and dresses" were more gender and class/status specific than any modern garment.
The colour purple was exclusive to the Royal family in Tudor England. Any commoner of any gender or social status would have been guilty of treason for wearing it. The punishment was death, yeah life was simpler in those days.
Fashion, faux pas tended to occur on a rare and very often, singular basis.
Strive to show that change is not only possible but essential to allow men to escape all the macho crap that has resulted in so many more male suicides and disastrously poor mental health.
Fashion is only one aspect; whole lives are affected and ruined too.
Steve.
I must be missing something, no offense Stevie, but I’m thoroughly confused by this.
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crfriend
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by crfriend »

ScotL wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:50 am
crfriend wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:07 am
ScotL wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:46 pm
The only thing that would change would be more men will be wearing skirts.
And those who don't wear the prescribed lengths and colours will be still defined as deviants.
Which is presumably what men wearing skirts now are labeled, no? When more men wear skirts, I see the “deviant” label lessening, not strengthening.
Yes, and the bucket is, in 99% of cases the wrong one. Why bother with baby steps? Let's take the whole hill.

To crib lightly from Flugel, "Renounce the Renunciation!" Or, "Make Men Beautiful Again."
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ScotL
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by ScotL »

crfriend wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:31 pm
ScotL wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:50 am
crfriend wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:07 am

And those who don't wear the prescribed lengths and colours will be still defined as deviants.
Which is presumably what men wearing skirts now are labeled, no? When more men wear skirts, I see the “deviant” label lessening, not strengthening.
Yes, and the bucket is, in 99% of cases the wrong one. Why bother with baby steps? Let's take the whole hill.

To crib lightly from Flugel, "Renounce the Renunciation!" Or, "Make Men Beautiful Again."
To quote Confucius “the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step”

To us, men wearing whatever they please, is important. To mainstream men, they already do wear what they want cause they’ve never contemplated wearing a skirt. I feel to make a huge issue of it and seize it by its neck, when the rest of the world doesn’t see it at all, would be alarming and cause a negative reaction to it. I can see them saying things like “wow, what got their panties in a bunch”.

To be slow and steady, doesn’t alarm, it introduces.

But I get it. I’m not a patient person. So I’d love to damn the torpedoes and rush the hill. But…
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crfriend
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by crfriend »

ScotL wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:23 am
To quote Confucius “the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step”
I know it well, and related to it when, heavily laden with bags, stepped out of my house onto a patch of glare ice in the pre-dawn darkness on Christmas Day last year beginning a jaunt to Savannah, GA.
To us, men wearing whatever they please, is important. To mainstream men, they already do wear what they want cause they’ve never contemplated wearing a skirt. I feel to make a huge issue of it and seize it by its neck, when the rest of the world doesn’t see it at all, would be alarming and cause a negative reaction to it. I can see them saying things like “wow, what got their panties in a bunch”.

To be slow and steady, doesn’t alarm, it introduces.
The "grab it by the neck" approach does place a bit of a burden on the guy who is doing the proverbial grabbing in that he has to know his look, know his style, and be perfectly comfortable in it. He should not look outlandish or as a parody of a woman; he needs to be himself through and through -- genuine and compelling. He needs to stand tall and be confident -- to present a compelling look worthy of emulation, or at least aspiration. That's a bit of a tall order, and not everybody is up to it -- and for those who are not, the drab look could well work nicely. But do not take "advanced looks" away from the confident or the daring, because those are the ones that will be looked at, critiqued, and, perhaps, emulated.
But I get it. I’m not a patient person. So I’d love to damn the torpedoes and rush the hill. But…
You know where the hill is. Mount your own assault. You'll never know until you try, and it's not like it's a matter of life or death unless you live in a really unpleasant part of the world.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
ScotL
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by ScotL »

crfriend wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:06 pm
ScotL wrote:
Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:23 am
To quote Confucius “the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step”
I know it well, and related to it when, heavily laden with bags, stepped out of my house onto a patch of glare ice in the pre-dawn darkness on Christmas Day last year beginning a jaunt to Savannah, GA.
To us, men wearing whatever they please, is important. To mainstream men, they already do wear what they want cause they’ve never contemplated wearing a skirt. I feel to make a huge issue of it and seize it by its neck, when the rest of the world doesn’t see it at all, would be alarming and cause a negative reaction to it. I can see them saying things like “wow, what got their panties in a bunch”.

To be slow and steady, doesn’t alarm, it introduces.
The "grab it by the neck" approach does place a bit of a burden on the guy who is doing the proverbial grabbing in that he has to know his look, know his style, and be perfectly comfortable in it. He should not look outlandish or as a parody of a woman; he needs to be himself through and through -- genuine and compelling. He needs to stand tall and be confident -- to present a compelling look worthy of emulation, or at least aspiration. That's a bit of a tall order, and not everybody is up to it -- and for those who are not, the drab look could well work nicely. But do not take "advanced looks" away from the confident or the daring, because those are the ones that will be looked at, critiqued, and, perhaps, emulated.
But I get it. I’m not a patient person. So I’d love to damn the torpedoes and rush the hill. But…
You know where the hill is. Mount your own assault. You'll never know until you try, and it's not like it's a matter of life or death unless you live in a really unpleasant part of the world.
At no time have I argued to take away the “advanced looks”. I’m in favor of everyone finding their style and being themselves.

But I also know, mainstream men are never gonna go from never wearing a skirt to wearing an “advanced look”. Too much of a leap. But, get them to try a drab, boring skirt where their mind says it’s ok and they experience the benefits, and then some will graduate to “advanced looks”.

But this will be of no consequence to those already sporting an advanced look
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by Midas »

This is a daft thread that ought to be abandoned.
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by ScotL »

Midas wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:07 pm
This is a daft thread that ought to be abandoned.
Interesting response, why would you say this?
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by Midas »

Because it’s boring, irrelevant and circular. It’s like a pub argument close to chucking out time.
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by ScotL »

Midas wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:32 pm
Because it’s boring, irrelevant and circular. It’s like a pub argument close to chucking out time.
Then ignore it or don’t read it. Why be so negative. I was taught if you having nothing nice to say, don’t say anything. In my opinion, posts like yours squash conversation others may be enjoying and detract from the group.
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by Uncle Al »

ScotL wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:39 am
Midas wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:32 pm
Because it’s boring, irrelevant and circular. It’s like a pub argument close to chucking out time.
Then ignore it or don’t read it. Why be so negative. I was taught if you having nothing nice to say, don’t say anything. In my opinion, posts like yours squash conversation others may be enjoying and detract from the group.
The problem is that this 'topic' has been discussed over and over again
just in many different threads :!: How many times can you ask the
same question in a different way, expecting a different outcome :?:

I totally agree, it is time to put this to rest :!:

Uncle Al
:mrgreen: :ugeek: :mrgreen:
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Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-2022(and the beat goes on ;) )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
ScotL
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by ScotL »

Uncle Al wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:47 am
ScotL wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:39 am
Midas wrote:
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:32 pm
Because it’s boring, irrelevant and circular. It’s like a pub argument close to chucking out time.
Then ignore it or don’t read it. Why be so negative. I was taught if you having nothing nice to say, don’t say anything. In my opinion, posts like yours squash conversation others may be enjoying and detract from the group.
The problem is that this 'topic' has been discussed over and over again
just in many different threads :!: How many times can your ask the
same question in a different way, expecting a different outcome :?:

I totally agree, it is time to put this to rest :!:

Uncle Al
:mrgreen: :ugeek: :mrgreen:
I know how hard it is to moderate a website like this. You put your free time and are not paid for your efforts. It is a thankless job and I appreciate your efforts.

I want to make a few points from my experience on other “cafes”.

1. New people find this cafe at different times and cannot/should not be expected to have read all previous posts.

2. Old topics that come up again and are commented on by different voices should be a goal. This increases participation.

3. Life changes daily and “rehashing” old topics can be good to re-examine in a new light or from different people.

4. Essentially telling a group discussing a thread to “be quiet because we’ve heard this before” send a a bad message. These last two posts make me feel unwelcome and like I should just stay quiet because my opinions/contributions don’t matter.

5. From my mother, “nothing good to say, don’t say anything”. If I’m reading a thread and it bores me ir is rehashing something I’m no longer interested in, I either don’t read it or don’t comment on it. Why Squash discussion just because you don’t want to hear it when you can just ignore it.

In my opinion, I’d recommend a “cafe” of likeminded folks interested in a niche subject encourage participation in the topic not suppress it.

But it’s your cafe and I’m just a visitor. I’d urge you to rethink the position on suppressing the rehashing of topics buried across many different threads across many years of a forum.

But unless you change your mind about wanting to suppress this thread, I will cease posting to this thread out of respect to you as a moderator.
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crfriend
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by crfriend »

ScotL wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:53 am
1. New people find this cafe at different times and cannot/should not be expected to have read all previous posts.
One of this site's strong points is the depth of knowledge and experience one will find and read about here if one takes the time and the interest to read back through some of the history. One of the reasons many of us write is so we don't need to continually re-tell things. I've been wearing skirts for 20 years now -- longer than some of us have been alive -- and there are guys who have been doing it for longer than I have. Put five of us in a room and you've got 100 years of experience and potential advice and counsel.

The reason this thread came close to getting shut down was a deadlock that wasn't going to break, and that point was where the evolution of men's skirts should end, and the deadlock was what was ruffling feathers. Movement, for whatever reason, was clearly impossible and thus conversation on it redundant.
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Re: A plea for skirts as a degendering measure

Post by Grok »

I have noticed kilts being described as "gateway" garments, leading a man into MIS.

Perhaps drab, boring skirts might function as gateway garments, for some men. Less of a big leap from drab, boring trousers than the more interesting skirts. So drab skirts might serve a useful, if niche, function. :idea:
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