Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
Barleymower
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by Barleymower »

Men stopped being beautiful and become useful.
Sad times.
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gender free universe
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by gender free universe »

Men stopped being beautiful and become useful.
That's how it is.
We all know why. Carl Fluegel described it already in 1930 in detail in his Psychology of clothing. He coined the term "Great Masculine Renunciation". Today, you can't even use the adjective beautiful for a man. A man is handsome - at best. Looking at Roman Caesars or Napoleon in his imperial regalia you look at different times. However, it cannot fundamentally be about necessary gender differentiation, otherwise, fashion could not change.

I found this pic in an illustrated Old Testament (Book of Daniel). No man wears pants.

Image
Coder
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by Coder »

gender free universe wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:52 am
We all know why. Carl Fluegel described it already in 1930 in detail in his Psychology of clothing. He coined the term "Great Masculine Renunciation".
You've mentioned this before - I found a scanned copy here:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dl ... 7/mode/2up

but I'm curious - how influential was this work, and is it worth reading?
Andy_G
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by Andy_G »

In my lifetime, I have seen one male in a skirt who isn’t in fancy dress.

I’ve been around these boards, not posting often, for the best part of two decades. There’s been no change TBH. The same views get aired, and people feel like it’s gaining traction. “Will this be the year?” is asked every year!!!! And guess what - it’s not!!!

I doubt it will ever be seen as mainstream, or widely accepted by the public. Males wearing subtle make up is accepted these days, but I can’t see ever getting to the point where all clothing will be seen as genderless. Sorry to be negative.
ScotL
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by ScotL »

Andy_G wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:27 am
In my lifetime, I have seen one male in a skirt who isn’t in fancy dress.

I’ve been around these boards, not posting often, for the best part of two decades. There’s been no change TBH. The same views get aired, and people feel like it’s gaining traction. “Will this be the year?” is asked every year!!!! And guess what - it’s not!!!

I doubt it will ever be seen as mainstream, or widely accepted by the public. Males wearing subtle make up is accepted these days, but I can’t see ever getting to the point where all clothing will be seen as genderless. Sorry to be negative.
I don’t think your being negative, just honest that there is a huge barrier to men wearing womens clothing that is not present to women wearing mens clothing. And it all has to do with the make psyche and how from childhood we are taught to be a man. And that does not mean dress like a girl. This is the huge uphill fight that we need to overcome.

I will differ with you that it will not happen. I see it happening. But it will need a way to get the message out in national/international media, clothing manufacturers and God forbid, influencers
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by ScotL »

gender free universe wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:52 am
Men stopped being beautiful and become useful.
That's how it is.
We all know why. Carl Fluegel described it already in 1930 in detail in his Psychology of clothing. He coined the term "Great Masculine Renunciation". Today, you can't even use the adjective beautiful for a man. A man is handsome - at best. Looking at Roman Caesars or Napoleon in his imperial regalia you look at different times. However, it cannot fundamentally be about necessary gender differentiation, otherwise, fashion could not change.

I found this pic in an illustrated Old Testament (Book of Daniel). No man wears pants.

Image
I’m always dumbfounded by people who swear the Bible says men should dress like men in their defense of why men shouldn’t wear skirts. If asked what would Jesus do? He wore a dress. Call it a robe if you will, but that’s a dress.
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denimini
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by denimini »

I have never seen another man in a skirt in my area or during any of my travels.
I have had no issues anywhere in Australia wearing a skirt, even in small outback towns.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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crfriend
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by crfriend »

ScotL wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:50 am
I’m always dumbfounded by people who swear the Bible says men should dress like men in their defense of why men shouldn’t wear skirts. If asked what would Jesus do? He wore a dress. Call it a robe if you will, but that’s a dress.
This is down to a bad translation of the original scripture into English. Deuteronomy is an extended fable about deception, not about clothes. A more accurate translation would have been, "No woman shall take up arms, nor armour" (that which pertaineth to man, men already being viewed as expendable), nor will a man disguise himself to escape such duties.

The truly ridiculous part, however, is that's Old Testament Bible -- and that was obsoleted by the more modern New Testament centuries ago. It also does not pertain to anyone who does not happen to be Christian, or some derivative thereof. It is, therefore, entirely safe for everybody else to simply ignore it.
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Barleymower
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by Barleymower »

My understand of what has been said is that men gave up being beautiful to be useful in the 18th century. They put aside frivolous clothing and wore more practical clothes leaving the frivolous wear to the women. Men no longer wore wigs or silks.

Apart from the obvious fighting attire by the romans and robes worn by the men in Jesus's time etc I'm not seeing a time in history where men worn the same clothes as women. Women always wore feminine clothes. Women wore long simple dresses or very fancy long dresses. Men did not wear long dresses, fancy or otherwise.
Men might have worn skirts, but they were mostly a simple cloth. I cant see where men wore beautiful skirts alongside the women folk?
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gender free universe
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by gender free universe »

crfriend wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:59 am
ScotL wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:50 am
I’m always dumbfounded by people who swear the Bible says men should dress like men in their defense of why men shouldn’t wear skirts. If asked what would Jesus do? He wore a dress. Call it a robe if you will, but that’s a dress.
This is down to a bad translation of the original scripture into English. Deuteronomy is an extended fable about deception, not about clothes. A more accurate translation would have been, "No woman shall take up arms, nor armour" (that which pertaineth to man, men already being viewed as expendable), nor will a man disguise himself to escape such duties.

The truly ridiculous part, however, is that's Old Testament Bible -- and that was obsoleted by the more modern New Testament centuries ago. It also does not pertain to anyone who does not happen to be Christian, or some derivative thereof. It is, therefore, entirely safe for everybody else to simply ignore it.
Just like that!
If you want to know more about it, I recommend this link on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Jpglj ... x=73&t=29s

It is also interesting that the handwritten German translation by Martin Luther in the description of the priest's robes explicitly uses the words roc (Rock in modern German) for a skirt and Kleid for a dress. There is no word of robes or garments.
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gender free universe
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by gender free universe »

Barleymower wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:25 pm
My understand of what has been said is that men gave up being beautiful to be useful in the 18th century. They put aside frivolous clothing and wore more practical clothes leaving the frivolous wear to the women. Men no longer wore wigs or silks.

Apart from the obvious fighting attire by the romans and robes worn by the men in Jesus's time etc I'm not seeing a time in history where men worn the same clothes as women. Women always wore feminine clothes. Women wore long simple dresses or very fancy long dresses. Men did not wear long dresses, fancy or otherwise.
Men might have worn skirts, but they were mostly a simple cloth. I cant see where men wore beautiful skirts alongside the women folk?
Up until about the 15th century, men and women wore the same robes. They were wrapped around the body or cut as a tunic with a head hole. There were only differences in details such as the different draping or length. Men's clothing was a bit more ostentatious and sometimes more ornate, e.g. with gold brocade. Men also wore special belts for short swords or daggers. Fitted clothing only came about with the invention of modern standard scissors with pivoted blades and handles. It replaced those scissors made of a piece of rod-like iron, bent 180 degrees in the midst with endings forged into blades. The new scissors cut more precisely due to the joint connecting the blades very close forming a cutting edge. Until the French Revolution, women were not allowed to dress more sumptuously than their men. Historical films show our fantasies about history. They mostly do not show correct clothing of the respective era, because otherwise Elisabeth Taylor staring as Cleoprata would have had to bare her breast because in old Egypt the women of the higher classes wore wraparound robes like men with only one long strap for one shoulder that left the breast exposed on the other side.

What is fancy and what is feminine? Here are a few examples of men in fancy dresses.
Image

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ScotL
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by ScotL »

Now those are some pretty fancy dresses/skirts on men.
Barleymower
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by Barleymower »

That answers that question!
6ft3Aussie
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by 6ft3Aussie »

Barleymower wrote:
Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:44 pm

How prevalent are men in skirts in your area?
How are men in skirts where you live treated?
Where is the best place in the world to live for a man in skirt?
1. I have seen a number of guys in various skirts and sarongs, as well as a number in kilts, at least 4 or 5 others in utility kilts or similar. There are a few out there around here. (Brisbane, Australia). My wife has seen a few that I have not.

2. I have only had one glare that I can recall, and two guys trying to take the p!55 and several positive comments from women.
Comments from other guys (from my experience) seem to be p!55 taking or the underwear question, while women have always been overwhelmingly positive in their comments. My wife has told me that there has been no shortage of women checking me out, you could say, and that apparently happens even when I'm not kilted/skirted.

3. The best place? no place like home.
Spirou003
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Re: Men in skirts around the world - Straw Poll

Post by Spirou003 »

How prevalent are men in skirts in your area?
=> I did see on last year, one man in a black leather skirt, one in a light blue dress, and a man I seen twice with different kilts. If we count other religious/cultural garments that look like a dress, I couldn't count because there are been tens if not a hundred of people in the last 4 years.
How are men in skirts where you live treated?
=> At places you're known (save for family and friends), no differently than before. From pure strangers, more interactions with them but it's 50-50 between cool discussions and mockery. I now only wear skirt inside the building where I live, no mockery anymore.
Where is the best place in the world to live for a man in skirt?
=> Not in the city I'm living in, regarding comments others have made about living somewhere they're not having any issue with their skirt. I live in Belgium at Charleroi
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