Progress - maybe lack of it

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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ScotL
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by ScotL »

crfriend wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:19 pm
jamodu wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:30 pmRather than maligning Skirt wearing Men as ‘Crossdressers’ I suggest that a more palatable attribute would be ‘gender non-conformity’ on their choice of alternative clothes.
That's even worse than the cross-dresser slur. Start dragging gender and sex into it and you're guaranteed to drive regular blokes away in droves.

Why does there have to be something wrong with my gender-identity for me to wear a skirt? It doesn't bother men in all the other places where skirt-like garments are worn?
The only thing wrong with your gender-identity and skirt wearing is due to gender norms. Stupid rules no one voted on, no one debated and no one person can change themselves.

I will say, I fear the biggest obstacle to men wearing skirts comes from men. I have a feeling women won’t really care but dudes will be accosted by the man card and “toxic masculinity”
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by lithaborn »

I looked on M&S today. A Women’s pair of Leggings was £9.50 - among numerous other such Leggings. By comparison, there was a single pair of Men’s Leggings (for Sport) costing £19.50.
In these frugal times, is like to point out that Poundland/pep&co and Primark flog 'em for £2.50

Men's jogging leggings, Primark will get you a pair for £8. Higher end, there's a McArthur glen right round the corner from me with big names like Nike, underarmor, ASICS and those ripoff merchants are flogging them for upwards of £45!
if the suggestion was made that Men wear Women’s Leggings instead there would be a negative response by Women - even though they look the same.
I've been wearing women's leggings for years now for medical reasons. I'm wearing a pair now with axolotls on them. Nobody's ever said a word.

I've even worn them to the gym. Still not a strange glance or a word said.

I tell a lie. The other day a woman ran up to me and exclaimed how much she loved axolotls.

I know this is a forum for skirt wearing, but as this particular thread has turned to other traditional women's legwear, I'll put in a good word for men wearing leggings. Just go for it.
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Faldaguy
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

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by lithaborn » Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:35 pm

I know this is a forum for skirt wearing, but as this particular thread has turned to other traditional women's legwear, I'll put in a good word for men wearing leggings. Just go for it.
I fail to see how one reconciles giving up pants because as bifurcated garments they are uncomfortable, only to turn around and add back in a batch of bifurcated garments -- but because they come from the other side of aisle, they somehow become a logical alternative? Where is the consistency in the various rationalizations offered?
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

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Faldaguy wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:18 am
by lithaborn » Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:35 pm

I know this is a forum for skirt wearing, but as this particular thread has turned to other traditional women's legwear, I'll put in a good word for men wearing leggings. Just go for it.
I fail to see how one reconciles giving up pants because as bifurcated garments they are uncomfortable, only to turn around and add back in a batch of bifurcated garments -- but because they come from the other side of aisle, they somehow become a logical alternative? Where is the consistency in the various rationalizations offered?
To me, the consistency is wearing what you find comfortable regardless of “what aisle” it’s on. Pants have less give so they bind and put pressure right where a guy don’t want pressure. Leggings are like underwear. Stretchy things that move with the appendages.

And honestly, I think on a forum where we want to normalize the wearing of something the “general public” thinks is absurd for a gender, we should always adopt the attitude of “wear what you want” cause that’s what I want to do. If you find it comfortable and it obeys basic decency laws, that’s all that matters. Not trying to call you out, you are asking a legitimate question. I just want to make the point that we want to receive the benefit of the doubt that we are wearing a skirt because it’s comfortable and so we need to ape that attitude of giving the benefit of the doubt. My pretense being Instead of writing how you don’t under stand how men wear leggings, ask how do leggings differ from pants in the arena of wanting to be comfortable down there. Sort of semantic BS but winning the hearts and minds of others means we need to be open to “free dressing” for all to quote a phrase from a different thread
rode_kater
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by rode_kater »

Faldaguy wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 4:18 am I fail to see how one reconciles giving up pants because as bifurcated garments they are uncomfortable, only to turn around and add back in a batch of bifurcated garments -- but because they come from the other side of aisle, they somehow become a logical alternative? Where is the consistency in the various rationalizations offered?
If we were against all bifurcated garments we'd all stop wearing underwear too. Now, there are no doubt people here wearing skirts without underwear, but I suspect it's a small minority.

I posit that leggings are completely different from pants and still leave the authentic skirt experience. In certain climates they becomes a must at certain times of year if you don't want to freeze. I'm not sure there is much difference between leggings aimed at men vs women. Possibly some difference in the crotch design and the rear end (at least in pattern books they have a slightly different shape). So I can imagine legging manufacturers setting up a new line with a lower expected market makes them more expensive, who knows. If you can take standard leggings and they fit you, yay! The material is pretty stretchy so it doesn't have to be perfect, just comfortable.
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Jim
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by Jim »

rode_kater wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:56 am
If we were against all bifurcated garments we'd all stop wearing underwear too. Now, there are no doubt people here wearing skirts without underwear, but I suspect it's a small minority.
There is unbifurcated underwear.
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crfriend
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by crfriend »

Every time I see a pair of "leggings" I just cringe and think, "'80s fashion victim." I hated 'em in the '80s when they were "the latest thing", and I hate 'em to this day.
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Uncle Al
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by Uncle Al »

IMHO - -
'Leggings' and PH are other names that can be associated with thermal underwear.

Leggings and PH(below the hem-line ;) ) ARE meant to be seen. I have had to
wear compression PH/Tights which were black Opaque. The ones designed for
men were ribbed-knit. The ones designed for women were smooth, a non-ribbed
material. Those are what I wore - smooth to the skin and did not leave 'ribbed marks'
in my skin after removal. Difficult to put on and remove but my legs felt much better.
ANYTHING to prevent DVT(blood clots) in my legs.

They also help control the edema in my legs, caused by cellulitis - a flesh eating
bacteria. I would not wish that on my worst enemy :!: The scars from cellulitis
are fading out but the edema won't go away. I'm supposed to take 'water pills' but
don't like spending most of the day in the bathroom. Must start the pills again as
the edema is coming back. This adds weight to my body, which I don't need :|

YES, leggings and PH are designed to flex with the bodies movement.
They caress and support the body and do not cut into certain body parts
the way the crotch seams of trousers do.

Like wearing skirts, getting over that first time experience, they become 'normal' and
are very comfortable, especially in cold weather. The compression part helps your legs
not be tired and sore after strenuous activity.

Just my $.02 worth :D

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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by lithaborn »

Faldaguy wrote: I fail to see how one reconciles giving up pants because as bifurcated garments they are uncomfortable, only to turn around and add back in a batch of bifurcated garments -- but because they come from the other side of aisle, they somehow become a logical alternative? Where is the consistency in the various rationalizations offered?
This is an explanation hopefully unique to me: I have neuropathy - nerve damage - as a side effect of diabetes. Among other things I hope nobody else ever experiences, it manifests in my legs as an intense sensation aversion to anything that's not skintight. If they're not skintight, it feels like they're made if sandpaper. After many months of trying to cope by taking opiate painkillers to make "normal" legwear bearable, at my other half a suggestion I tried her leggings and they gave immediate relief. For comfort and I guess medical reasons I've been wearing them ever since.

They do feel great to wear aside from the physical relief they bring, not to mention the vast choice of patterns and lengths available. I mentioned the axolotls, today I'm wearing ones with seahorse-unicorns on them.

I'm not trying to make any statement in favour of de-gendering clothes, even when I'm wearing a dress or a skirt or what one would generally call "women's" boots, I just want to be not in so much pain that only codeine makes life bearable.

If I choose to celebrate the freedom and comfort that necessity brings me, that's my choice and one I hope this site will encourage.
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Grok
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by Grok »

I haven't tried the skirt/legging combination myself, but urge members to be open minded. Please consider that, even if not your preference, such outfits may work for others.
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

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Grok wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:38 pm I haven't tried the skirt/legging combination myself, but urge members to be open minded. Please consider that, even if not your preference, such outfits may work for others.
Oh the irony. A website that is mad that society is critical of their clothing choice subsequently is mad at their own members clothing choices. Live and let live.
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by Coder »

ScotL wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:51 am
Grok wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:38 pm I haven't tried the skirt/legging combination myself, but urge members to be open minded. Please consider that, even if not your preference, such outfits may work for others.
Oh the irony. A website that is mad that society is critical of their clothing choice subsequently is mad at their own members clothing choices. Live and let live.
Nailed it!
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by Faldaguy »

by ScotL » Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:51 pm

Oh the irony. A website that is mad that society is critical of their clothing choice subsequently is mad at their own members clothing choices. Live and let live.
Scott, I think you are putting words in other's mouths. I've not seen anyone here proclaiming to be mad about other's choices. I've seen opinions as to weather they like a style or not; if it is for them, reasons why it works for them despite being bifurcated, etc -- there is a real difference between questions and differences of perspectives than 'being mad at' or putting down another's choice.
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by ScotL »

Faldaguy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:01 am
by ScotL » Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:51 pm

Oh the irony. A website that is mad that society is critical of their clothing choice subsequently is mad at their own members clothing choices. Live and let live.
Scott, I think you are putting words in other's mouths. I've not seen anyone here proclaiming to be mad about other's choices. I've seen opinions as to weather they like a style or not; if it is for them, reasons why it works for them despite being bifurcated, etc -- there is a real difference between questions and differences of perspectives than 'being mad at' or putting down another's choice.
Sorry, I didn’t mean any disrespect. The written word doesn’t convey tone. My comments were meant as hyperbole and were written after reading comments about not liking what others were wearing.

My point being the real difference you speak of: questions about what someone likes versus disliking what someone likes. It’s a small connotation issue but as an outsider to this cafe, I perceived it. And to a group wanting societal acceptance, perceived negativity (real or imagined) is unhelpful.

I’m sorry I chose the words “getting mad” as they were purposefully meant to comedically (though guess I’m not funny) exaggerate the problem which I now see as also a perceived negativity.

In the end, my post was meant to suggest we like what we like, ask questions about what others like and say “it’s not for me but you do you” if we don’t like it.

But again, I am sorry I offended.
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Re: Progress - maybe lack of it

Post by Coder »

ScotL wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:05 am Sorry, I didn’t mean any disrespect. The written word doesn’t convey tone. My comments were meant as hyperbole and were written after reading comments about not liking what others were wearing.
That's how I read it - not too serious - as sometimes I see a bit of anti-pantsism (or any bifurcated garment) here. I get it - this is Skirt Cafe - not Pants Cafe - but sometimes it feels a bit inflexible.
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