Skirt Cafe is an on-line community dedicated to exploring, promoting and advocating skirts and kilts as a fashion choice for men, formerly known as men in skirts. We do this in the context of men's fashion freedom --- an expansion of choices beyond those commonly available for men to include kilts, skirts and other garments. We recognize a diversity of styles our members feel comfortable wearing, and do not exclude any potential choices. Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom for men. See here for more details.
Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:31 am
I see them as a cop out.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t like that sentiment. I look at kilts as the gateway drug, just without the negative connotation. Men can wear a kilt because it traditionally is for men. In their minds, they are being men. Even manly men when they watch Braveheart.
But becoming comfortable wearing a kilt and realizing the advantage of what is a skirt in all things but name, normalizes the wearing for them. Just like a gateway drug, they would then start slowly branching out to wear things that blur the kilt versus skirt line. Then as a slippery slope, they may surprisingly find themselves as a skirt wearer.
This is my experience. I started with a kilt and a stretchy jersey skirt. Surprisingly I wore the skirt first and thought the comfort was over the top. But it was a skirt. So I really started wearing kilts. And this took a little while to be comfortable in one in public. And now is starting to “surprisingly” morph into skirts that not surprisingly are brown and black. But the adventure continues.
But calling a kilt a cop out I think provides the wrong wording to newbies. Encouraging all unbifurcated bottom usage regardless of what it is advanced MIS
I would encourage "unbifurcated bottom usage" with a variety of options, and yes, that includes kilts. For the Kilties, kilting is a preference, not a cop out.
While growing up it looked like I would be stuck with a Trousers Tyranny for my entire life. Kilting became an option in adulthood-yes, the (seemingly) only alternative to trousers was an option. Think of it as better than nothing.
Regarding kilt liners.
I just wear some sort of light weight pull on skirt, like a t shirt type material. Anything light weight material would probably work. Just make sure it's shorter than your kilt by 3 or 4 inches.
Cheaper than actual kilt liners, and cheaper than most slips.
I have several black skirts and a dark blue one solely for wearing under my tartan kilts. Works great for me.
I'm not a huge fan of synthetics like nylon or polyesters. I would say 95 percent of my skirts are cotton. I may have a few synthetic fabric ones but they are less favorable in my book.
Another reason why I don't like slips because they are usually synthetic.
Regarding kilts being a gateway garment. I could see that.
Once a guy sees how great unbifirbcation is. And getting a breeze between the knees. It doesn't take too long to ponder if there's anything more comfortable, lighter, or cheaper than a kilt. And very quickly the skirt is found as a excellent alternative.
I'm a oddball In that I'm in a big minority of mis because I first wore skirts then got kilts. Where most mis, might have started with a kilt and then later tried a skirt.
To me a kilt is just a alternative type of skirt.
You figure at the root the modern kilt is just a fancy wrap skirt with a legendary history.
I also have a wee bit of Scottish ancestry.
I love the history of the kilt. But still prefer to wear a skirt any day.
Speaking of kilts and of progress
Tonight I decided to wear my kilt out late night with the wife. Just me and her. No comment from her about the kilt.
Maby she is starting to realize that the kilt or skirt doesn't change who I am?
I'm treading cautiously, detailed long woeful tale over in the difficulties with partners thread.
So maby there is progress???
Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:31 am
I see them as a cop out.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t like that sentiment. I look at kilts as the gateway drug, just without the negative connotation. Men can wear a kilt because it traditionally is for men. In their minds, they are being men. Even manly men when they watch Braveheart.
I don't take it the wrong way, I can see your writing is well intended. My motives for what I said were that wearing a kilt for me is cop out. I have looked on at the nice clothes worn by women with envy for many years. If I'm going to do this then I want to dress in fashion that pushes the.cause forward, suits me, looks good and relieves the anguish I have felt over the years.
I will try and explain:
I think waxed slender legs on ladies look great, sexy. My muscular legs would look dreadful waxed. So no waxing. Tights feel great on but I look like a woman wearing them, I don't want to look like some kind on woman/man hybrid so no tights. You get the picture.
My drive is to carry off wearing a skirt so that people look and think that guy looks great. I have to say that my efforts have largely failed. My fashion conscious daughter tells me I'm looking good and she's prepared to walk beside me. My neighbours now stop and talk to me in the street. Other than that normos are not greeting me with open arms. I suppose it takes time.
Bm, perspective. You say that you think that you look like a woman when wearing tights. Others' opinions may vary and NOT think you look like a woman. Of course in the scheme of things your perspective is the important one. My wife agrees that I have nice legs and feet, look good in a skirt [0], but when she sees me in a skirt [1] she sees "woman". Her words, not mine. My perspective is different and I see no such thing. I wear hosiery and my wife sees no problem with that. She even came across a load of her American Tan [2] ones that she donated to me.
[0] Most of my skirts, there are some that she doesn't like.
[1] Some skirts more than others.
[2] Colour, not brand.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Been wearing kilts for about a decade and I've had all number of interesting interactions with people over them.
Funnily enough it's usually the guys who want to know if I've got undies on and the girls who want to know if I'm cold. That puzzles me a tad, like you've been wearing skirts longer than I have, you must have had one wooly skirt in your life, you know I'm not cold!
I also get a fair smattering of drunk Scotsmen opining about the old country and telling me their life story, which is always lovely.
And one very drunk guy who approached me from a wetherspoons in my "small c and capital c conservative" town while I was in my black watch tartan and a "specials" t-shirt and rather than the aggressive takedown I expected asked me if I knew when The Specials were touring next.
I get what you're saying she I agree to a degree but I'd say they're a gateway for the general public rather than the potential skirt-wearer. They give the public a chance to get used to seeing you - especially in my small town - in unbifurcated legwear and when you finally step out in that little black pencil skirt everyone's just like "eh, it's that guy in the skirt again".
That's been my experience, anyway.
To add to the hosiery discussion, I lost a lot of weight and started feeling the cold a lot more so I shoved a pair of tights on under my kilt. I was wearing knee high boots with it so only an inch or two of tights were (was? English is hard) visible and to my face at least nobody have two hoots.
I enjoy wearing tights, they help relieve my neuropathy. I don't feel masculine or feminine in them, just relief from the nerve endings in my legs firing painfully all at once.
I agree with all of the above. I have no problem with how anyone chooses to dress. That's the point isn't it? Men choosing how to express themselves not society choosing for us.
Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:31 am
I see them as a cop out.
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I don’t like that sentiment. I look at kilts as the gateway drug, just without the negative connotation. Men can wear a kilt because it traditionally is for men. In their minds, they are being men. Even manly men when they watch Braveheart.
I don't take it the wrong way, I can see your writing is well intended. My motives for what I said were that wearing a kilt for me is cop out. I have looked on at the nice clothes worn by women with envy for many years. If I'm going to do this then I want to dress in fashion that pushes the.cause forward, suits me, looks good and relieves the anguish I have felt over the years.
I will try and explain:
I think waxed slender legs on ladies look great, sexy. My muscular legs would look dreadful waxed. So no waxing. Tights feel great on but I look like a woman wearing them, I don't want to look like some kind on woman/man hybrid so no tights. You get the picture.
My drive is to carry off wearing a skirt so that people look and think that guy looks great. I have to say that my efforts have largely failed. My fashion conscious daughter tells me I'm looking good and she's prepared to walk beside me. My neighbours now stop and talk to me in the street. Other than that normos are not greeting me with open arms. I suppose it takes time.
Why do you say your efforts failed? A fashion conscious daughter is good with it and the neighbors are cool with it also. Not sure what you expect from others but uninterested indifference is a win to me. If the “normos” don’t react then good. Step in the right direction. I almost never get approached by anyone to tell me I look good. Only tunes that has happened is when wearing a kilt
lithaborn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:52 am
Been wearing kilts for about a decade and I've had all number of interesting interactions with people over them.
Funnily enough it's usually the guys who want to know if I've got undies on and the girls who want to know if I'm cold. That puzzles me a tad, like you've been wearing skirts longer than I have, you must have had one wooly skirt in your life, you know I'm not cold!
I also get a fair smattering of drunk Scotsmen opining about the old country and telling me their life story, which is always lovely.
And one very drunk guy who approached me from a wetherspoons in my "small c and capital c conservative" town while I was in my black watch tartan and a "specials" t-shirt and rather than the aggressive takedown I expected asked me if I knew when The Specials were touring next.
I get what you're saying she I agree to a degree but I'd say they're a gateway for the general public rather than the potential skirt-wearer. They give the public a chance to get used to seeing you - especially in my small town - in unbifurcated legwear and when you finally step out in that little black pencil skirt everyone's just like "eh, it's that guy in the skirt again".
That's been my experience, anyway.
To add to the hosiery discussion, I lost a lot of weight and started feeling the cold a lot more so I shoved a pair of tights on under my kilt. I was wearing knee high boots with it so only an inch or two of tights were (was? English is hard) visible and to my face at least nobody have two hoots.
I enjoy wearing tights, they help relieve my neuropathy. I don't feel masculine or feminine in them, just relief from the nerve endings in my legs firing painfully all at once.
I think there will be those guys who won’t wear a skirt even if it’s “allowed”, cool, accepted and endorsed by there manly man club of the manly mens world. Even if they find them comfortable. My own experience was the kilt sold me on the idea. Though I tried a skirt on first and was hooked, my own male stupidity said the kilt is ok. Do that. And now I’ve gone past the point of no return.
ScotL wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 5:12 pm
Why do you say your efforts failed? A fashion conscious daughter is good with it and the neighbors are cool with it also. Not sure what you expect from others but uninterested indifference is a win to me. If the “normos” don’t react then good. Step in the right direction. I almost never get approached by anyone to tell me I look good. Only tunes that has happened is when wearing a kilt
I feel my efforts have failed because even though I'm out and about in my favourite clothes my courage often fails me. I can't face the mens toilets. I have used them in super busy places, never the urinals. Certain other places are hard to bear: the school playground for example.
Second reason I don't rock the look as well as I would like too. Simple fact is I look better in trousers.
Not every skirt style looks “good” (subjective) on every person. I’ve tried to recreate looks I’ve seen other guys do with ankle length skirts, different shirt types, and they just don’t work for me. I’ve even recreated outfits exactly as others (women) have modeled them and end up going “meh”. You just have to find your style. From there branch out - and take advantage of free ship to home / free returns when available.
Also - google “men skirts outfits (or other variations)” and check out Instagram - not everything might be your cup of tea, but if you can find some individuals who share your body type - see what they wear and if it interests you. At some point I ran across a guy on insta that was basically my body twin, and he even wore skirts that I liked, which gave me some ideas for outfits. Though honestly he does the graphic tee/skirt thing that I do, so it’s not that much different.
Oh - also - footwear. Combat boots, I think, are perfect with skirts, as are chucks. But try different shoe types to see if they work better, perhaps sandals.
ScotL wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 5:12 pm
Why do you say your efforts failed? A fashion conscious daughter is good with it and the neighbors are cool with it also. Not sure what you expect from others but uninterested indifference is a win to me. If the “normos” don’t react then good. Step in the right direction. I almost never get approached by anyone to tell me I look good. Only tunes that has happened is when wearing a kilt
I feel my efforts have failed because even though I'm out and about in my favourite clothes my courage often fails me. I can't face the mens toilets. I have used them in super busy places, never the urinals. Certain other places are hard to bear: the school playground for example.
Second reason I don't rock the look as well as I would like too. Simple fact is I look better in trousers.
Says who? Who says you look better in trousers? I can’t judge not seeing but I’d say you are likely still developing your style like I am but you have the blessing of a fashion conscience girl. That she’s a teenager (I think) says even more.
I’d also say the fact you are out there wearing a skirt openly is more than courageous. I wore one into a FedEx that had a back entrance during a time I swore no one would recognize me and was pretty nervous. I think it’s all baby steps getting up the courage until you’re one of the “old timers” on here who feel 100% comfortable in a skirt in public.
Don’t sell yourself short. We are our own worst critic. I’m new and am a neophyte but I think what you’ve already done is awesome
