New to the forum - Help needed
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New to the forum - Help needed
Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and a dedicated wearer of skirts. I have a kilt, a blue silk monsoon knee length, a green silk knee length, two pleated and plisse down to the floor and I love them all. Each day I walk my daughter to the station in a skirt, I wear them on days out and around the house. I don't wear makeup, tights, wigs stiletto's. Apart from the skirt, I wear guys stuff and don't disguise myself in any way. In fact I make an effort to show that I am a man. A man in a skirt. There's certain places I don't go in a skirt. I don't pick my son up from primary (I don't want to embarrass my youngest son) and I don't go clay shooting in a skirt (I would be a laughing stock). I've been wearing a skirt now for about four months.
I love skirts and dresses, I always have and I spent a lifetime (I'm mid fifties) enviously looking on. Not anymore. I wear skirts a lot now and I try my best to look good and show that men can look great in a skirt. Luckily I have a 13 year old daughter who steers me away from fashion disasters.
Out and about I can truly say that people most look away and pretend not to see. I've had a few people chat to me normally and say hello. I have not had a compliments. That's pretty much were I'm at today. I'm also in a bit of turmoil.
I've read a lot of posts from lots of men who wear skirts who are not transgender and do not consider themselves to be crossdressing (neither do I) and they generally say the similar things: comfort, fabrics, style, men's rights etc. They don't really say anything which might edge towards a gay or transgender label. This is not the place for that, I know, there are plenty of sites for those who are captured by those labels.
Here's were the help comes in:
1. I just happened upon a big pride event in London today and again I still did not see many men in skirts. I saw two kilts, one guy in a feminine dress but was definitely just a guy, and two guys with dresses, makeup / the works. This was in in a big crowd of around 200,000. There was probably more I just didn't see them. Men in skirts are not part of the Pride LGBTQ+ community. where do we belong?
2. Are we being totally honest with ourselves when we say it's just about the comfort, style etc? Honestly I don't know, maybe I'm telling myself that wearing a skirt is all it is, maybe its more. can anyone just say its just fashion/comfort/men's rights?
I really would like to get some opinion here. I often feel very alone in my skirt wearing. I really don't see anyone else doing it.
I love skirts and dresses, I always have and I spent a lifetime (I'm mid fifties) enviously looking on. Not anymore. I wear skirts a lot now and I try my best to look good and show that men can look great in a skirt. Luckily I have a 13 year old daughter who steers me away from fashion disasters.
Out and about I can truly say that people most look away and pretend not to see. I've had a few people chat to me normally and say hello. I have not had a compliments. That's pretty much were I'm at today. I'm also in a bit of turmoil.
I've read a lot of posts from lots of men who wear skirts who are not transgender and do not consider themselves to be crossdressing (neither do I) and they generally say the similar things: comfort, fabrics, style, men's rights etc. They don't really say anything which might edge towards a gay or transgender label. This is not the place for that, I know, there are plenty of sites for those who are captured by those labels.
Here's were the help comes in:
1. I just happened upon a big pride event in London today and again I still did not see many men in skirts. I saw two kilts, one guy in a feminine dress but was definitely just a guy, and two guys with dresses, makeup / the works. This was in in a big crowd of around 200,000. There was probably more I just didn't see them. Men in skirts are not part of the Pride LGBTQ+ community. where do we belong?
2. Are we being totally honest with ourselves when we say it's just about the comfort, style etc? Honestly I don't know, maybe I'm telling myself that wearing a skirt is all it is, maybe its more. can anyone just say its just fashion/comfort/men's rights?
I really would like to get some opinion here. I often feel very alone in my skirt wearing. I really don't see anyone else doing it.
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
Hi barleymower,
I'm not the typical skirtwearer here but I think that for most there is no real fit in terms of easily categorising this - in an attempt to understand it better.
For me its not so much about comfort of wearing, rather its about my image/sense of style that I present. I prefer a hemline rather than shorts/pants. Sure I find skirts comfy, but its mostly how they look. I like my legs too - and the visual image I project is really what its about for me.
I am categorised as TG, I have a man face but a girl body, I don't like the TG name for all the nonsense/activists and stigma out there that we connect to these labels. But by definition I would be that. I gave up worrying/over analyzing why I want to be female/wear these clothes, why I was different - I just wanted that and still do, and I feel complete doing so.
I suspect that for others who openly wear skirts too - they have the confidence to do so, and if like I found, that confidence grows with over time, and you learn that most often nowadays you will be accepted for being who you are.
I am not sure the comparisons to these parades etc is a good idea, as I suspect a lot of that is showmanship, may not be a true reflection of reality for those people, more of a chance to perform for a day. It might be a desire for them, but not their way of life, so a comparison might be misplaced?
Not sure if my ramblings help? Probably said enough before I cause a stir...
cheers
NZF
I'm not the typical skirtwearer here but I think that for most there is no real fit in terms of easily categorising this - in an attempt to understand it better.
For me its not so much about comfort of wearing, rather its about my image/sense of style that I present. I prefer a hemline rather than shorts/pants. Sure I find skirts comfy, but its mostly how they look. I like my legs too - and the visual image I project is really what its about for me.
I am categorised as TG, I have a man face but a girl body, I don't like the TG name for all the nonsense/activists and stigma out there that we connect to these labels. But by definition I would be that. I gave up worrying/over analyzing why I want to be female/wear these clothes, why I was different - I just wanted that and still do, and I feel complete doing so.
I suspect that for others who openly wear skirts too - they have the confidence to do so, and if like I found, that confidence grows with over time, and you learn that most often nowadays you will be accepted for being who you are.
I am not sure the comparisons to these parades etc is a good idea, as I suspect a lot of that is showmanship, may not be a true reflection of reality for those people, more of a chance to perform for a day. It might be a desire for them, but not their way of life, so a comparison might be misplaced?
Not sure if my ramblings help? Probably said enough before I cause a stir...
cheers
NZF
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
Hi Barleymower,Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:21 pm Are we being totally honest with ourselves when we say it's just about the comfort, style etc? Honestly I don't know, maybe I'm telling myself that wearing a skirt is all it is, maybe its more. can anyone just say its just fashion/comfort/men's rights?
Welcome to the cafe, the simple answer is yes to each of your points.
The why is really irrelevant, the fact that we can, and do wear skirts or dresses as men, paramount.
I'd go a bit further than NZF, I don't feel that any of us cafe patrons are typical in any real sense.
What we do have is a certain commonality of experience which, when shared and chewed over, can be of huge benefit.
As for the pride parade, that is just a big fancy dress party for anyone to express themselves in their own ways.
My experience has taught me that the vast majority of men who like to wear skirts are straight, the same portion of gay males would not be seen dead in one.
As for kilts, oh my, that is a discussion topic all by itself.
Steve.
PS Why not a sensible tweed or proper moleskin for the shooting? Besides, who'd laugh at a guy with a loaded shotgun in his hand?
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
Welcome, and it seems that you have found an appropriate forum.
We choose to wear skirts for various reasons, mostly about comfort and a wider choice of garments. I don't think gender or sexuality influence the preference for skirts any more than they would for any other garment. I would not interrogate myself about why I choose to wear skirts any more that I would about my breakfast preferences. Just a personal choice, albeit not following current fashion.
I think it is normal not to see many men wearing skirts. So far I have never seen another man wearing a skirt in real life, just what I see on the internet. That does no faze me; we can wear skirts and I do, I wear mini skirts most of the time, everywhere except to funerals and board meetings.
We choose to wear skirts for various reasons, mostly about comfort and a wider choice of garments. I don't think gender or sexuality influence the preference for skirts any more than they would for any other garment. I would not interrogate myself about why I choose to wear skirts any more that I would about my breakfast preferences. Just a personal choice, albeit not following current fashion.
I think it is normal not to see many men wearing skirts. So far I have never seen another man wearing a skirt in real life, just what I see on the internet. That does no faze me; we can wear skirts and I do, I wear mini skirts most of the time, everywhere except to funerals and board meetings.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
I don't think we need to find a box for ourselves but maybe society needs to find one for us. I think most of the men on this site just wear skirts. A few of us including me go a bit further. I often dress as a woman at home (with bra and breast forms but no wig or make up) and a few times a year I go the whole hog and with wig and make up go out in public presenting as a woman. At no point do I identify as a woman and do not regard myself as trans. I do it for fun - it generates endorphins. Even crossdressers have problems accepting that people do this without being trans. As for society, the moment anyone puts on a skirt they put us on a journey to gender re-assignment. People like their boxes and as someone who takes pride in living outside the box, I would have to admit that this would be easier if society had a box for me - because until they do they will put me in a box they have. But for yourself - just do your thing and don't be boxed in by anyone. Men in Skirts is a very broad church.
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
Hi NZF,nzfreestyler wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:31 am I'm not the typical skirtwearer here but I think that for most there is no real fit in terms of easily categorising this - in an attempt to understand it better.
For me its not so much about comfort of wearing, rather its about my image/sense of style that I present. I prefer a hemline rather than shorts/pants. Sure I find skirts comfy, but its mostly how they look. I like my legs too - and the visual image I project is really what its about for me.
I am categorised as TG, I have a man face but a girl body, I don't like the TG name for all the nonsense/activists and stigma out there that we connect to these labels. But by definition I would be that. I gave up worrying/over analyzing why I want to be female/wear these clothes, why I was different - I just wanted that and still do, and I feel complete doing so.
I suspect that for others who openly wear skirts too - they have the confidence to do so, and if like I found, that confidence grows with over time, and you learn that most often nowadays you will be accepted for being who you are.
I am not sure the comparisons to these parades etc is a good idea, as I suspect a lot of that is showmanship, may not be a true reflection of reality for those people, more of a chance to perform for a day. It might be a desire for them, but not their way of life, so a comparison might be misplaced?
Not sure if my ramblings help? Probably said enough before I cause a stir...
I think it is ok for you to want to be a female. I hope you find your happiness there. I also don't believe in labels. For me labels are an attempt to understand the world, the world is too complicated, labels don't work. As for the parade you are right it's not a good place to find comparison. I had just hoped I would see more relaxed men in skirts. Then, why should I? The LGBTQ+ is about being gay or trans. Men on this site are universally saying "we are not gay".
My journey started at my Nan's when I was really about four. My mum was just divorced and dating a new man, my now step dad, my Dad. I wore nan's nightie in the bathroom then, I couldn't leave it alone. Fast forward 50 years and in that time I didn't wear any girls clothes. I looked on enviously but never did anything. That is until my daughter became a teen and had this beautiful petticoat. I had to try it. I thought "I'm not sneaking around in my own home in my daughters petticoat, that cant happen" So I decided to tell my wife and the kids and get on with it. My wife (a feminist) was shocked but accepted it. My daughter (non binary) thought it was great and my boys just said its fine.
I know I'm not gay. I'm not attracted to men in that way. I've had a few girlfriends, one long term and outside of her approximately one every two years until I got married. Before I got married I suffered ten years of severe panic attacks over this issue (at least that's my diagnosis). I've played the hand I was dealt. It's the one card in my hand that no matter how I've tried I have never been able to through away.
Honestly speaking I think I would been happy if I had been born a woman. I would probably though be in the same boat that I am now. I do not want to chop myself around to achieve something that cannot ever be truly achieved I like being a man. I am physically strong and quick on my feet and I have enjoyed all of my relationships with women.
I love my wife and I'm really happy we had our three children.
It's just this thing about skirts. It just won't go away.
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
STEVIE wrote:
>
>
Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:21 pm > PS Why not a sensible tweed or proper moleskin for the shooting? Besides,
> who'd laugh at a guy with a loaded shotgun in his hand?
I just not into tweed and moleskin! I have a kilt. Its ok, the first skirt I work outside of my house. I'm embarrassed to say I like light, silk skirts, preferably pleated. They are gorgeous. The guys at the shooting club are so macho, I think half of them are non-binary on the quiet. None of them would admit it and would probably go in into macho mode double quick if one of their own turned up in a moleskin.
I did it myself with one of my sons. I was horrified by my own actions. I had to put that right double quick. Another reason why I told my family and started my skirt collection.
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
denimini wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:41 am I think it is normal not to see many men wearing skirts. So far I have never seen another man wearing a skirt in real life, just what I see on the internet.
[/quote.
Me neither and I think it is tragic. Because I know that lots of men would have great fun in skirts
Last edited by denimini on Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote formatting
Reason: Fixed quote formatting
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
rivegauche wrote:
> But for yourself - just do your thing and don't be boxed in by
> anyone. Men in Skirts is a very broad church.
The pressure to conform is enormous. Yet when I go out nobody cares.
> But for yourself - just do your thing and don't be boxed in by
> anyone. Men in Skirts is a very broad church.
The pressure to conform is enormous. Yet when I go out nobody cares.
Re: New to the forum - Help needed
We don't have a pigeon hole and are unlikely to get one. There are so many facets to "us", from the weird and wonderful, to the mundane and ordinary. I suspect the weird get dismissed as oddballs and the mundane go unnoticed. Society sees so few MIS, as MIS, that there probably isn't really any consensus.
I think everyone is honest with themselves (most of the time), but more candid with others; your feeling are your own, but maybe expressing them is a step too far. All clothes affect mood and demeanour. A suit, a biker jacket, or a skirt can make you feel sexy, or comfortable, or over exposed....depends on you. No feelings are wrong.Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:21 pm 2. Are we being totally honest with ourselves when we say it's just about the comfort, style etc?
I see kilts as tartan skirts, a form of shielding for many, but, hey, who cares.
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
Kilts are bloody expensive for shielding There are decent tartan pencil skirts out there, but as for "boxes" or being pigeon-holed, a lot of guys on Instagram are going with #meninskirts or #clotheshavenogender. There was a guy in the Daily Mail who wore a dress to a wedding (was helping in the bridal party)Bodycon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:52 pmWe don't have a pigeon hole and are unlikely to get one. There are so many facets to "us", from the weird and wonderful, to the mundane and ordinary. I suspect the weird get dismissed as oddballs and the mundane go unnoticed. Society sees so few MIS, as MIS, that there probably isn't really any consensus.
I think everyone is honest with themselves (most of the time), but more candid with others; your feeling are your own, but maybe expressing them is a step too far. All clothes affect mood and demeanour. A suit, a biker jacket, or a skirt can make you feel sexy, or comfortable, or over exposed....depends on you. No feelings are wrong.Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:21 pm 2. Are we being totally honest with ourselves when we say it's just about the comfort, style etc?
I see kilts as tartan skirts, a form of shielding for many, but, hey, who cares.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... dding.html
But few commented on it, and there were several photos of the chap in a flowing purple dress. Many just don't care.
Saw a guy in a denim skirt last week walking down the high street, no one seemed fazed. Many guys may just be content with their shorts but a skirt doesn't cause the shock it used to years ago
Formerly Kilty / Joe Public etc...
Re: New to the forum - Help needed
I believe that there is a label for us, and that label is "Gender Nonconforming". Here is the definition:
denoting or relating to a person whose behavior or appearance does not conform to prevailing cultural and social expectations about what is appropriate to their gender.
I am fine with this label because it describes me.
denoting or relating to a person whose behavior or appearance does not conform to prevailing cultural and social expectations about what is appropriate to their gender.
I am fine with this label because it describes me.
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
Anywhere on this whole disaster of a planet that you choose!
You know best but why?Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 6:21 pm I don't go clay shooting in a skirt (I would be a laughing stock).
Absolutely correct!
As New to Skirts so pithily stated, "bloody expensive"! Made to measure ones, yes , but there are many more economical alternatives which may be used as a teaser gauge.
That brings me back to your gun toting dinosaur buddies. If you thought it would help at entry level, why not try a kilt?
Look at Elmer in Bodycon's avatar, I'm not sure what he is wearing but certainly looking deadly serious.
Even if it is the most macho fashion for the on-trend clay pigeon hunter, who knows what delicate lingerie may be providing a finishing touch?
Finally, congratulations on the Dad/Daughter relationship, mine will be thirty next year and only just coming to terms with my choices now.
That, however, is a whole different subject.
Steve.
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
I go out in whatever I want on a daily basis. I'm not going to hide in the bathroom. I/we are not doing anything wrong or to be ashamed of.
When I go clay shooting I want to concentrate on the clay not my clothes. If I wore a skirt it would provoke a reaction, they would go along with the rest of the group. They are too entrenched in their own frail self image. Men are as bad if not worse than women in this respect.
I can see a little light at the end of the tunnel for example the Norfolk school that will allow boys to wear skirts. They are doing it to allow kids the freedom to explore their gender identity. That is a freedom I did not have, probably along with most of men in this forum. In London in the warm weather I see lots of women celebrating their womanhood with lovely skirts and dresses. Men just don't have the nerve to celebrate their manhood in the same skirts/dresses/fabrics. I'm out there but I'm not seeing any other men. Maybe we need a meeting of well dressed men in skirts and dresses with our wives, girlfriends, children and our mates.
When I go clay shooting I want to concentrate on the clay not my clothes. If I wore a skirt it would provoke a reaction, they would go along with the rest of the group. They are too entrenched in their own frail self image. Men are as bad if not worse than women in this respect.
I can see a little light at the end of the tunnel for example the Norfolk school that will allow boys to wear skirts. They are doing it to allow kids the freedom to explore their gender identity. That is a freedom I did not have, probably along with most of men in this forum. In London in the warm weather I see lots of women celebrating their womanhood with lovely skirts and dresses. Men just don't have the nerve to celebrate their manhood in the same skirts/dresses/fabrics. I'm out there but I'm not seeing any other men. Maybe we need a meeting of well dressed men in skirts and dresses with our wives, girlfriends, children and our mates.
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Re: New to the forum - Help needed
Unfortunately I disagree in one sense - when women dress like this they are embracing their innate femininity the way modern society expresses it. For men to embrace their innate masculinity, I would expect rugged boots, beards, and plaid shirts. I don’t think it is that they don’t have the nerve - they just go with the typical way their gender expresses itself.Barleymower wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:54 am In London in the warm weather I see lots of women celebrating their womanhood with lovely skirts and dresses. Men just don't have the nerve to celebrate their manhood in the same skirts/dresses/fabrics.
Now… I dropped some loaded words there “innate” for instance… but I’m only talking in terms of the average bloke.
Ultimately it would be nice if men could expand their presentation choices, such that skirts/dresses/etc could be seen as “masculine” so more men wouldn’t be afraid of wearing those items, but the more I reflect on things the more I suspect humans like to have clear boundaries/differences between the sexes.