Is this the reason?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
Coder
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Is this the reason?

Post by Coder »

I was reading an article and it had a comments section - one of the comments made me pause:
A few boys challenging the dress code at my daughter's high school decided to wear skirts to test the waters. The girls told them to wear pantyhose (early 1990's) to get the full effect. They did not.
After reflecting on this a bit it occurred to me this could help explain (in part) why some spouses/partners object to "their men" wearing the skirt. My routine - skirt or no skirt - is largely unchanged. I don't primp myself except clearing the forest on my legs, which if I decided one day to stop, would be just as acceptable as a skirt is on me (that is, tacitly accepted). Men get more of a pass - to some extent we are expected to be slobs. For women, though, both women and men hold them to a high standard. They spend more time prepping their appearance for events, going out, etc... When a guy decides to wear a skirt, unless I suppose they are going for full-on emulation, they aren't suffering for fashion. I think to some degree it's a double-standard - it isn't fair we can just swap shorts for a skirt.

Thoughts?
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Jim
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by Jim »

Coder wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 12:32 am
I think to some degree it's a double-standard - it isn't fair we can just swap shorts for a skirt.

Thoughts?
I think it's more not fair that some women can't just make such a swap, and feel they have to prep.
STEVIE
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by STEVIE »

Coincidence, but I had a chat yesterday with a lady from Montana who was visiting our fair country.
She asked if I shaved my legs as I was wearing "panty hose"? Yes, was my reply.
In summer, she told me that she does exactly that, swaps short and skirts.
Cooler weather means legwear means return to shaving and I agreed wholeheartedly but not so much for the look as for comfort.
Enough on that, hosiery is done to death elsewhere. We didn't discuss how well it is received by those around her but I got the impression she wouldn't care anyway.
Jim wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 2:25 am
I think it's more not fair that some women can't just make such a swap, and feel they have to prep.
Any and all "standards" which are varied on the basis of gender alone are intrinsically unfair.
Boys, girls, men and women are all conditioned from the cradle to feel ever so wrong when they don't meet those standards.
The sad fact is that too many people reach their graves without ever realising just how spurious and damaging the so called rules really are.
Steve.
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Sinned
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by Sinned »

As I've said before on this site, I wouldn't shave my legs to wear shorts so I wouldn't shave my legs to wear skirts. I wear tights and thigh highs as well as socks and pop socks. Just because women feel they need to shave their legs don't feel that you need to too. If you want to, fine, but don't feel compelled.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by Coder »

Sinned wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 8:12 am
As I've said before on this site, I wouldn't shave my legs to wear shorts so I wouldn't shave my legs to wear skirts. I wear tights and thigh highs as well as socks and pop socks. Just because women feel they need to shave their legs don't feel that you need to too. If you want to, fine, but don't feel compelled.
Well, my point wasn’t really about one particular routine/item or another - I think Steve put it most succinctly when he wrote:
STEVIE wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 3:14 am
Boys, girls, men and women are all conditioned from the cradle to feel ever so wrong when they don't meet those standards.
The sad fact is that too many people reach their graves without ever realising just how spurious and damaging the so called rules really are.
Steve.
My comment was more along the lines of - while we don’t have the level of fashion freedom the ladies do* - we also have a much lower bar to hurdle. The unfairness comes in the form of these rules which when we can escape them the fairer sex will undoubtedly be jealous to some extent.


*we actually - probably do nowadays more than we realize
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mishawakaskirt
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by mishawakaskirt »

If I "had to" shave my legs or wear tights or pantyhose to "get to" wear a skirt. I wouldn't Wear a skirt.

I have never figured out the whole female, leg and arm pit shaving deal anyways.
I don't find it a turn off. Or turn on.

From my teenage years on I have held the frame of mind. If I'm not willing to do something, how can I expect or demand some one else to do/work on/ wear something etc.
I'm not above any one in any way shape or form.
Maby fatter or balder than some.
Joking aside.

I can't demand my wife always wear makeup, wear short skirts and pantyhose, if I'm not willing to do the same.

As a teen/ 20s. I shaved my legs and tried a lot of fem clothing.
In a quest to search out equality and see what I'd be willing to wear or expect a girlfriend/wife to wear.
Everything I thought was a pain in the butt, with the exception of wearing practical skirts.

I let my wife wear and dress comfortably as she seems nessary.

I have never told her what to wear. Or if and when personal grooming might be needed.

I wish she would extend me the same freedom.
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Avoid the middle man, wear a kilt or skirt.
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by Coder »

mishawakaskirt wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 7:54 pm
If I "had to" shave my legs or wear tights or pantyhose to "get to" wear a skirt. I wouldn't Wear a skirt.
Exactly! Those are personal choices - but society at times "demands" one conform and so these things become requirements in order to be in society else be an outcast. I'm overstating things, but for me it is very hard to not conform even when I don't want to. Not talking specifically about leg hair here, fwiw.
mishawakaskirt wrote:
Wed May 11, 2022 7:54 pm
I have never told her what to wear. Or if and when personal grooming might be needed.

I wish she would extend me the same freedom.
Most of us probably don't - I sure as heck avoid saying anything to the female of our species except encouragement to "not worry, you look fine". BUT, those who spend a lot of time might be doing so under social pressures we don't perceive. They in turn may think it is unfair that men live outside of these strict standards.

Really, my main point was that I often see an element of "payback" when women discuss men wearing skirts in comments sections of articles.
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by moonshadow »

Well, if a woman doesn't want to shave her legs, then my advice to her is to stop shaving her legs. There's no law against it... (yet). I'd hazard a guess that there's probably as many women out there who don't shave their legs as there are guys in skirts. I'd hazard another guess that most women shave their legs for the same reason most men don't wear skirts... they don't want to rock the boat, and want to appear "normal". Women also have this compulsive need to "put on their face" and spend hours working on their image prior to going out. I notice even in office settings, many women, even when dressed somewhat casual have all sorts of accessories and whatnot. It's like they're expected to do this otherwise suffer the social consequences.

Is it a double standard? Well, yes and no. Nobody is making these women do this. They can put their foot down anytime and stop, just as we can wear a skirt whenever we want. While there may be a double standard in certain select social situations, generally speaking women are afforded the same rights men are. Anyone can wear whatever they want!

So if there's any women reading this, by all means, if you take a notion, let that leg and armpit hair grow! And if you don't want to wear makeup or a bra... don't! Set yourself free!.. Freedom for ALL! I gotcha back!

Speaking of leg shaving, I've debated on letting mine grow again. It's just gotten to be such a chore.
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by STEVIE »

moonshadow wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 12:17 am
Is it a double standard? Well, yes and no. Nobody is making these women do this. They can put their foot down anytime and stop, just as we can wear a skirt whenever we want. While there may be a double standard in certain select social situations, generally speaking women are afforded the same rights men are. Anyone can wear whatever they want!
Sorry Moon but I think we all know that an awful lot of people do not dress exactly or act according to their own wishes.
If that were so, the human race would be in a very different place right now.
Sure. we are not actually forced to do many things but we do them anyway even when that thing is contrary to our own tastes, beliefs and even health.
Individual need and societal pressure to conform is perhaps the most insidious and pervasive aspects of the human psyche.
Anyone can be a maverick, a rebel even an influencer but lets have no illusions that daring to be different can incur a very high cost.
I think it best if I leave it at that, regards to Jen too.
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by moonshadow »

STEVIE wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 4:48 am
Individual need and societal pressure to conform is perhaps the most insidious and pervasive aspects of the human psyche.
Anyone can be a maverick, a rebel even an influencer but lets have no illusions that daring to be different can incur a very high cost
Well... I don't know what to say. It's not illegal, though the way things are going it might be before the decade's out.

Folks can do what they feel is best, perhaps the future won't be a grim as I anticipate, but the storm clouds are brewing over the horizon.

I think I would enjoy as much freedom as I can... before it's too late. In fact, that's what I intend to do.

There ain't nobody stopping anyone from doing the things discussed in this thread but their own ego. People better start asserting, fighting for, and enjoying their individual rights or we aren't going to have then much longer.... and that's a fact.

I'll grant that skirt wearing men and hairy legged women are far down the chopping list... but it is on the list.

Maybe tyranny isn't just around the corner, but death could happen at anytime, and most of us only have anywhere from a few decades to a few years left.... nobody escapes that fate, so I recommend everyone get every morsel of life they can out of what few years we have.

... but that's just me.
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Jim
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by Jim »

moonshadow wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 12:17 am
Well, if a woman doesn't want to shave her legs, then my advice to her is to stop shaving her legs. There's no law against it... (yet). I'd hazard a guess that there's probably as many women out there who don't shave their legs as there are guys in skirts.
I expect there are a LOT more women who don't shave their legs than men who wear skirts in the US.
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by Sherkhan »

<-- I for one will not take that bet :)
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by crfriend »

Jim wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 11:44 am
I expect there are a LOT more women who don't shave their legs than men who wear skirts in the US.
That's an entirely safe bet, but you won't make any money on it.

Not shaving has been a theme for decades. There's even a term for it, "Natural Woman".
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by rode_kater »

Maybe leg hair isn't a problem, but female facial hair is still a bridge too far for many people:
It is not uncommon for women to have facial hair. It is uncommon for women to have visible facial hair.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... it-visible
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Re: Is this the reason?

Post by Dust »

I know several women who don't shave their legs or armpits ever. In my real world social circle, I'm the only guy who wears skirts publicly, however.

I do run into guys who shave their legs semi frequently. Not a bridge I've crossed yet, but probably more common than women not shaving. Unless you count the women who stop shaving for the winter...
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