gender-inclusive skirt

[STEVIE]

I'm warming to the idea that most skirts don't have gender.

Sinned,
NO garment has a gender.
Marketing, fashion and attitude have all conspired to foist this particular absurdity on us.
The appeal of any given "look" is just a matter of taste for the individual, be it male or female.
If the cap fits, just wear the damn thing with your head held high.
Who knows, you may just start the revolution ?
Steve.

[Stu]

NO garment has a gender. Marketing, fashion and attitude have all conspired to foist this particular absurdity on us.

If asked why more men and boys don't wear skirts, the answer is simple - it is currently unfashionable for males to wear skirts. There is no other reason.

[Coder]

NO garment has a gender. Marketing, fashion and attitude have all conspired to foist this particular absurdity on us.

If asked why more men and boys don't wear skirts, the answer is simple - it is currently unfashionable for males to wear skirts. There is no other reason.

While I agree with your statement, I think if you asked any random person on the street their first answer would be "Well, only women wear skirts". I would be surprised if people even *considered* men could wear skirts without really thinking hard about it. Asking the question might prompt more thought though. I liken this to"Why do people like Brawndo?" with the answer being "Because it's got electrolytes".

Also... I think people (just based on a few conversations I've had) tend to separate "skirts" from skirt-like garments in their minds (kilts, and so forth). It's like they can't let the barrier break down as it would cause all sorts of havoc in their minds.

[Bodycon]

If asked why more men and boys don't wear skirts, the answer is simple - it is currently unfashionable for males to wear skirts. There is no other reason.

If only it were so simple.

Fashion is only part of the reason, the others being peer pressure and herd mentality, though they are also linked.

Any guy can wear a skirt, we know that, however that puts you in the position of being different in most peoples eyes (and to be fair our own). Human nature is to be part of the group (herd) and have safety in numbers. Those outside are treated with caution at best and can be killed if thought to be a threat, you only have to watch Meerkat Manor (UK TV show on a group (gang) of Serengeti Meerkats) to understand the brutality of group / herd mentality (or go a to a football match). Peer pressure holds the group together, so wearing something non-standard is likely to see you sidelined or ostracised (imagine being in a gang and NOT wearing grey Adidas tack bottoms and Nike trainers or turning up to a Hells Angels meet on a Ducati Panigale). The LGBT (etc) communities have formed themselves into groups for mutual protection and recognition and this cafe is a sign that skirt wearing men do also, except the numbers are so small that there is little or no recognition.

None of this is relevant to humans in the 21st century, however we are hard wired to conform (albeit the wring is wearing thin). So LGBT (etc), non-white (for example in UK), non-local etc. people are still picked out and abused and skirt wearing men could fall into that minority and be abused too, hence it is a step into the unknown to dare to be seen. The fear of non-conformity and the fear of rejection, I think are bigger reasons than fashion as to why more men don't wear skirts out and about. Most people here have walked out the door, through the gate and down the street, but many others haven't. None (as far as I can tell) cite fashion as the reason for not doing so.

It's not all doom and gloom though, as society evolves, one of the (few) benefits of the entitled Gen Z's is that those barriers are now being slowly broken. Skirts for men will follow....

[Stu]

If only it were so simple.

Fashion is only part of the reason, the others being peer pressure and herd mentality, though they are also linked.

Peer pressure - pressure to conform to the current fashion.

Herd mentality - the herd follows the current fashion.

Yes, the fashion aspect is so ingrained now that a male wearing a skirt is committing a social taboo, but it still all boils down to fashion. just as it was unfashionable for women to wear trousers because they were seen as masculine - until it was suddenly fine for women to wear trousers - so men's fashion could change. There is, I accept, a key difference, namely that trousers are a more practical garment for many activities.

[Sinned]

Carl, the acceptance has to come from her, I am fully convinced.

Steve, yes I could force the issue but your situation is ending in separation and, presumably, divorce. I don't want to end in that situation.

[Bodycon]

Nearly there, however you have the order (IMO) wrong, fashion is only one of many aspects of life that are governed (we allow ourselves to be governed) by both Peer Pressure and Herd Mentality. Of the three Herd Mentality is 1st (we are born with it), Peer Pressure second (we learn it) and Fashion third (we accept it).

Peer pressure - pressure to conform to the current fashion.

Yes, but peer pressure is dictating fashion not the other way round. How many fashions have we seen where the next big thing has been rejected by the masses? If fashion dictated over all, people would wear the stuff regardless (and I accept that sometimes this appears to be true).

Herd mentality - the herd follows the current fashion.

Yes, also true, however the herd is doing as its told by the leaders, cows in a field follow the matriarch out of respect and for group safety, there is no fashion (that I am ware of) in the animal kingdom. Decisions are made about fashion by the (human) herd leaders and influencers, not the other way round.

[crfriend]

Carl, the acceptance has to come from her, I am fully convinced.

Sadly, that is the case and I have no guidance on anything that might affect a change in that feeling.

[mishawakaskirt]

Carl, the acceptance has to come from her, I am fully convinced.

Steve, yes I could force the issue but your situation is ending in separation and, presumably, divorce. I don't want to end in that situation.

Getting accepted by the the one's we love.
It's a tough hill to climb, and like you separation or divorce has not and will never be a option.

I'm with my wife till one of us departs this life.

I don't think gender inclusive skirts will help the mis cause. I would rather they just call them unisex, we have unisex every thing else, why not skirts?
A skirt is a skirt is a skirt, a style might make it masculine or feminine. But at the core a skirt is a skirt.
I mean to make a skirt for men, does it need to have a pocket for your balls or what? What makes a skirt for a male or female? You don't need to reinvent the wheel. We just need one company to take a plain decent denim skirt with pockets that is knee length, and just put dual sizing on the tags.

[Coder]

We just need one company to take a plain decent denim skirt with pockets that is knee length, and just put dual sizing on the tags.

Some skirts are marked in inches/cm, instead of vanity sizing... however there is something to be said of a marking that specifically says "Mens".

This sort of thing comes up once in a while here - has anyone actually contacted a major manufacturer of clothing, perhaps their marketing departments, and questioned this? I (and a lot of people here) abhor social media, but it seems to me a smartly-worded social media campaign could create an interesting response.

[Brad]

A company that markets a product to a segment of the population may be missing out on sales to other segments of the population. But in doing so, they risk losing sales from the targeted segment.

Why would a company want to market skirts or tights to just 51% of the population? Because the other 49% will also buy it if they choose to. But if the company marketed to men, then women may feel they don't want to purchase a product that is then considered a product for men.

Women and men both wear blue jeans. But they're not the same blue jeans and they are marketed differently and sold in different parts of the store.

Perhaps the best example is razors. There may be subtle differences in the razors. Women's razors are shaving softer hair on curvier surfaces than are men's razors. But they are virtually the same, as is the shaving cream / gel which is marketed separately to each gender. Companies could probably save money with unisex shaving products and less SKUs to manage but may lose sales along the way. Do women feel more comfortable shaving with a pink razor called a Daisy?

This may explain why there is not more unisex marketing of certain clothing items.

[STEVIE]

This may explain why there is not more unisex marketing of certain clothing items.

Brad
Spot on!
I say again, it is all about profit and risk.
When money talks, business listens.
Until there is real economic justification skirts for men will never be on mainstream sale.
Meantime, I have fun doing the Aisleswitch Jig.
I bought a new dress today and even tried it on in the shop. No problem whatsoever.
Steve.

[phathack]

Can't see your Pink or Black or other color ?

Nordstrom LINK to skirts ( a whole bunch of them 25 pages 80 or so to a page all types)

https://www.nordstrom.com/sr?origin=key ... ve%20skirt

I ordered one in Black, its been shipped and I would expect it in here about Friday or so.
Its not the first time I have ordered a skirt mentioned on this forum.

I'm one of those that don't believe clothing has a gender per say.

We all know clothing can be cut to favor one body over another, say a Bikini or Top with plunging neckline.
In addition the clothing will usually be sized gender specific thought there are also size differences depending on where the garment is made. Clothing from Asia will often be Asian sized which runs 2 or 3 sizes smaller that traditional USA Sizing.

Over the last 5 years the majority of clothing I have bought has been sizes in women's sizing many people would say I'm wearing women's clothing thought most people could not tell the difference between mens and womens garments unless its an extreme body specific cut.

I'll post my opinion on the Nordstrom Skirt and hopefully post some photos as well once I get the skirt and give it a try.

[Faldaguy]

by Stu » Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:12 am

Bodycon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:36 am
If only it were so simple.

Fashion is only part of the reason, the others being peer pressure and herd mentality, though they are also linked.
Peer pressure - pressure to conform to the current fashion.

Herd mentality - the herd follows the current fashion.

Yes, the fashion aspect is so ingrained now that a male wearing a skirt is committing a social taboo, but it still all boils down to fashion.

My logic prof might have a different take; but despite grand efforts from both of you, it strikes me as a circular; "chicken or egg" question. Perhaps, rather than ruffle our feathers on this one we can just accept that peer pressure, herd mentality, and underutilized synapses regarding fashion are all factors limiting wide adaptation (again) of skirts for men. Just prod the bloke(s)* wherever they may be vulnerable and carry on.
* Women could help, but I think this one falls to men to make it happen.

[STEVIE]

Women could help, but I think this one falls to men to make it happen.

Faldaguy,
Some actually do help but in the wider scheme of things, this is really for men to do as a group.
Acting as a group got women their achievements and I rather doubt they had man male supporters.
Yup, we have an awful lot to learn from the "weaker" sex.
Steve.