Tartan school skirts

[STEVIE]

Hi Guys
I think we have a few points of interest here.
The first is tartan skirts. Casual observer looks but does not see and tartan equals kilt especially in Scotland.
That is the easy bit.
The whole premise of tartan is to be instantly recognisable and distinctive.
I have no wish to kill a brother clansman because I mistook the colours of his plaid!
The association between tartan and school uniform is probably based around the exclusive nature of the design.
Starting with exclusive elitist schools and emulated by the masses.
The next point, has anyone been challenged in any way for wearing a kilted skirt in a recognisable school tartan?
In terms of the cafe membership, I wouldn't rightly expect it. Our membership is way too prudent and sensible.
To paraphrase; Of all the tartans in all of the world, why choose to walk around in our school's?
In Aberdeen, my office was very close to the school mentioned and I was very visible in a skirt every day.
Had that skirt ever been in the Gordon tartan the chances are highly likely that I would have been discussing my clothes with the local constabulary let alone dealing with a hostile parent(s).
Lets face the fact that men in skirts have plenty detractors, we don't need to swell their numbers by our own actions.
Steve.

[Bodycon]

Let's play Devil's Advocate on this:

Had that skirt ever been in the Gordon tartan the chances are highly likely that I would have been discussing my clothes with the local constabulary let alone dealing with a hostile parent(s).

And what would that discussion comprise of? You're wearing a skirt or perhaps a kilt, but not a school uniform, so the Constabulary and / or parents have no grounds to challenge and any challange could be an infringement of your civil liberties - somewhat similar to women's rights unless the perceived norm is challenged it will become further entrenched. If every second person was wearing a tartan skirt or kilt, even in school colours, then that would become the norm. The question is (harking back to another thread) who is brave enough to be the trailblazer?

Lets face the fact that men in skirts have plenty detractors, we don't need to swell their numbers by our own actions.

Again in parallel with other causes, unless "you" sit on that bus seat, no-one will follow.

In reality very few, if any, are prepared to make a stand, which is understandable, we do not represent great numbers, but the duplicity of "get out there" vs "hide away and don't cause a stir" just because of a tartan pattern does amuse me somewhat.

If you look at all the first amendment auditors and similar in UK on YouTube exercising their rights and coming into conflict because of it, there is a growing trend of doing something considered outside of the norm, but perfectly legal, which is forcing society to accept them. I'm not saying people should parade past schools in school tartan skirts, but they are free to wear what they like and that any resulting conflict may bring about change by educating the challengers.

Will it be me? No, I don't have a tartan skirt or kilt and I don't really want one either.....

[Sinned]

Bodycon, what you have to realise that any confrontation wouldn't be on logical grounds but contain very emotional elements. This puts it on a completely different footing. For example my wife accepts my skirts around the house but is vehemently against me wearing them outside the house. Her reaction isn't logical as I have been wearing skirts for about 10 years now but is emotionally based and thus extremely difficult to counter. Being confronted by an irate parent accusing me, a grown man, of dressing as a schoolgirl even when I aren't is not a situation I would wish to face. Add into that the "authority" of local constabulary and the situation becomes even more fraught even though logically I couldn't be charged with anything. My local Academy ( previously a Secondary school ) has as part of its uniform a tartan skirt based on a silver/grey background. I have had children and have grandchildren who attend the said school so there is some historical and emotion contact there. The natural inference of other parents who do not know me is not something I can control so I take the safe route of not getting involved in wearing one of the school skirts as much as I would wish to. I know that I can walk around in probably any other skirt without comment, and have done so in the presence of the local plod, so it is that particular skirt that is off limits for me.

I accept your reasoning that we should be free to wear what we like but sometimes there are other factors that constrain our wardrobes. I would no more wear the local school skirt that go out in a floral crinoline floaty dress even though, in theory, I could do so.

[Bodycon]

Bodycon, what you have to realise that any confrontation wouldn't be on logical grounds but contain very emotional elements.

I fully understand all of that, what was puzzling me, hence the Devils Advocate approach, was where the line is, at what point do "out there" skirt wearing men hide rather than be confronted? To me, at least, a skirt is just that and while the perv aspect cannot be ignored, unless actually impersonating a schoolgirl, then why not?

Emotion is never logical and cannot be ignored. One brave soul (the trailblazer (the one who lives alone in the bedsit)) being falsely arrested and found to be innocent, then suing the Police and several parents, splashed across the national newspapers and TV would probably be no bad thing to move the debate on.

Will it happen, of course not.

[howardfh]

I think basically it's common sense. 1 - if I'm out on my own even in pants I avoid school areas during throwing-out time like the plague, both on foot and in traffic (if I can).

Therefore 2 - all other times the darned kids are inside and out of the way, or they are in "public" areas in OUR time/space. So if it's 7pm I'm walking down to my pub dressed how I wish, or 2pm and out on a country walk then what I'm wearing is their problem and get over it. Although 99.999% it's isn't anyone's problem.

As an aside, in the UK at certain times kids are allowed in pubs accomapnied and my local's (then) barmaid had her daughter with her (about 12/13) who was fascinated by my tatran jobbie and we had a real good chat about styles, sizes and where to get them.

I also get that a lot from women too.....and some chaps on occasion "I wish I could wear that"!!

[STEVIE]

I am new here and my first cup isn't even half drunk yet, however the duplicity of the advice on the site is rather odd.

Welcome to the cafe Bodycon but I'm really not sure of your approach even if you do like playing at "Devil's Advocate".
You mentioned trailblazers and their function is to ease the passage of the guy behind.
As a day to day skirt and dress wearer, I have been ticking that particular box for some years now.
Had I ended up in a confrontation that would almost certainly been negated.
As for civil liberties, we still have to co-exist in our own communities so yes there are compromises to be made.

Will it be me? No, I don't have a tartan skirt or kilt and I don't really want one either.....

I have both and the "kilt" very unlike what is mistakenly labelled traditional.
They are both illustrated elsewhere in the cafe too.
Finally, if you don't want tartan, what do you prefer?
Steve.

[Sinned]

I think that "the line" is the association that is made in others' minds with the "schoolgirl" look FOR THAT PARTICULAR SCHOOL that happens to be local [0] that a skirt of any other colour or pattern, even tartan, doesn't generate. In a sense it's anticipating a potential area of conflict and that's just sensible. I have worn a short blue skirt locally while the secondary school students were walking home and very little interest was shown. But had I been wearing one of their school skirts the I feel that I would have attracted a lot more attention and that is not what I would want. It's a matter of anticipating a reaction. Don't forget that these are teenagers and they often don't follow normal social rules of engagement.

[0] "Local" in my case is < 10 minutes walk away.

[Bodycon]

The point of Devils Advocate is to make an argument that is provocative against the other viewpoint to get the other party to explain their position. It is not about being right or wrong or indeed putting forward your own argument or position.

However, on a couple of points:
What strikes me as interesting is the untested fear (as no-one on here seems to have actually worn a tartan skirt around a school or school pupils) of being thought a perv by simply wearing a tartan skirt; so the fear is to some extent irrational as a cause and affect has not been proven, only living in the minds of the skirting protagonists. Yet on the other hand, kilts / tartan skirts are being used as an excuse to wear a skirt in public where the wearer is not confident enough to wear any other form of skirt. I am trying to understand the why's and reasons for both and all I can distil from the replies is fear.

From a quick dictionary search: “A Trailblazer is a pioneer, somebody who's willing to take risks and go in a path that isn't already there. They blaze a trail and leave a path for others.”
I'm not sure simply wearing a skirt or dress daily blazes a trail, after all men have been wearing skirts and dresses for a very long time. Blazing a trail would involve pushing the boundaries further than the currently accepted (skirt or dress wearing) norm. In that respect when was the last time a quantum leap (or even creep) was made?

I understand all the reasoning and I understand the fears, but find the self imposed restraints put forward difficult to vindicate.

On a lighter note, for my dress code, my Halloween outfit is actually my go to work clothes......

OK, not really....the closest thing I have to a kilt is the Joe Browns skirt I bought recently, however I have removed the faux pocket and odd looking fancy buttons. I've turned the pocket into belt loops too, as it was a just little on the large side. It will be my foil to all the "macho" kilts at the office Christmas party.

Other than that I only have a couple of hiking skirts for walking, a tennis skirt for cycling and a couple of denim / cord skirts for the odd time when I feel like wearing them. A couple of pairs of tights for the cold weather and that's it.

[Sinned]

The point of Devils Advocate is to make an argument that is provocative against the other viewpoint to get the other party to explain their position. It is not about being right or wrong or indeed putting forward your own argument or position.

I feel that I have explained my position. So if I don't need to put forth any argument then I may as well finish here.

However, on a couple of points:
What strikes me as interesting is the untested fear (as no-one on here seems to have actually worn a tartan skirt around a school or school pupils) of being thought a perv by simply wearing a tartan skirt; so the fear is to some extent irrational as a cause and affect has not been proven, only living in the minds of the skirting protagonists. Yet on the other hand, kilts / tartan skirts are being used as an excuse to wear a skirt in public where the wearer is not confident enough to wear any other form of skirt. I am trying to understand the why's and reasons for both and all I can distil from the replies is fear.

There's no fear even if it is untested. It is simply not wanting to generate a reputation for a particular form of perversion even if it is only perceived. Unfortunately the initial skirt wearing can only be done once and once done cannot be undone and the consequences faced. It's not a matter of confidence as I have worn skirts while in the presence of the school turnout, it's a matter of expediency. There is only one curtail on my wearing skirts in the street and that is my wife. I fail to understand from where you detect any fear. But I am not going to use your goading for me to progress in this area. It is just one particular skirt pattern that is worn in a school within walkind distance of my home. I don't and won't justify myself any more than that. I have done enough. Fear does not come into it at all but good manners and thoughtfulness does.

From a quick dictionary search: “A Trailblazer is a pioneer, somebody who's willing to take risks and go in a path that isn't already there. They blaze a trail and leave a path for others.”
I'm not sure simply wearing a skirt or dress daily blazes a trail, after all men have been wearing skirts and dresses for a very long time. Blazing a trail would involve pushing the boundaries further than the currently accepted (skirt or dress wearing) norm. In that respect when was the last time a quantum leap (or even creep) was made?

Each of us is a trailblazer in our own area since we report very few other sightings of men wearing skirts where we live. Some have different boundaries to others Nz wears exclusively "female" clothes and lokks dapper in them. Not sure about your generalisation as the relationship between men wearing dresses and skirts is not quite as simplistic as you seem to imply. In terms of men's sartorial style the terms "men" and "quantum "leap" just don't appear on the same page never mind in the same sentence.
So that's a bit of a red herring. I sense that I am not the only one that doesn't want to take up this particular challenge. Even if they were it wouldn't prove that the same experience would get the same result here - social environments vary.

I understand all the reasoning and I understand the fears, but find the self imposed restraints put forward difficult to vindicate.

Well I cannot understand your difficulty in understanding my restraints so we'll just have to agree to differ.

[Bodycon]

Well I cannot understand your difficulty in understanding my restraints so we'll just have to agree to differ.

Thanks Sinned , that is probably the best answer received, however you do take it all personally (which is not the intention) and not in the context of a group or mass where although there are differences within, the feeling I get from the many is as I described.

It has run its course for me, thanks for the replies.

[6ft3Aussie]

The high school, college call it what you will that I went to had the Napier tartan as the girls winter kilt skirt, which I quite like.

Move on over 30 years they don't wear the kilt skirt any more, I guess the fad of wearing ankle length kilt skirts that came after I was there sealed the end and they changed their uniform to a more plain knee length or slightly above skirt with box pleats in the front.

I would not have ever tried to wear that when it was part of the uniform, probably not much of an issue now though.

[JeffB1959]

When I think about tartan school skirts, THIS immediately comes to mind....Japanese schoolgirls! I don't think even I could pull off that look and be taken seriously, nor would I try either!

[Jim]

When I think about tartan school skirts, THIS immediately comes to mind....Japanese schoolgirls! I don't think even I could pull off that look and be taken seriously, nor would I try either!

I wouldn't wear the tie or the school logo on the jacket, but otherwise I'd try something like that--it's not a look I've seen on girls around here.

[howardfh]

When I think about tartan school skirts, THIS immediately comes to mind....Japanese schoolgirls! I don't think even I could pull off that look and be taken seriously, nor would I try either!

If the photo was cropped so their heads weren't visible, then they could easily be males - tartan skirts should be seen as what they are, a unisex garment.

[Sinned]

bodycon, I understand what you are doing so I'm not "taking it personally" but explaining from a personal perspective. There is a difference. There is no anger or frustration or malice in my answers. Also no-one else seems to be joining in so I must be speaking for the majority. Just to add one last thing. If I were to obtain a said skirt and move away from the area then I would have no qualms about wearing the skirt [0] outside as I think that then it would be just another skirt and not have any special significance.

[0] Subject to to getting it past my wife. And don't you dare go there with your devil's advocate. Don't you dare!!!!

Btw I think the short skirt with either knee length or thigh length socks is a good look which I would like to emulate without looking like a schoolgirl.