Tacit Acceptance.

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
STEVIE
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Tacit Acceptance.

Post by STEVIE »

In another thread I rather feel that I have been called out with regard to my views on the level of acceptance or approval in the wider population to men wearing skirts.
Just to be clear in this context I am not referring to any of the various "masculine skirted garments" like the Scottish Kilt or anything similar.
As it was suggested that I may be deluded in my belief it is quite regrettable but not surprising that i could not find any empirical data to back it up with.
I also have no intention of checking old posts to see all that I have recorded for the good or the bad.
My own skirted experience has been relatively positive and trouble free. The greatest challenge being immediate family.
Like a lot here have stated, going out skirted is mainly a non-event. There are no comments or perceptible reactions, in effect a guy in a skirt isn't noticed at all.
This is where I feel there is a flaw, silence does not signify acceptance, approval or support in my way of thinking.
Now I will posit a few questions which at best are likely only to have balance of probability type answers;
The proportion of men who would wear skirts openly on any kind of regularity? Skirts as defined above.
The proportion of women who would likely accept the offer of a first or second date from a guy in a skirt or dress?
The proportion of boys say age 8 to 12 who would choose or be allowed to wear a skirt at school?
The next question could be quantifiable;
The proportionate value of skirt sales to men but only related to Menswear revenue.
We know that it is increasing, the media has said so. However, my guess is that the answer in each case would have a very negligible value.
My contention is that if men wearing skirts is really viewed as normal and totally acceptable in the public eye , wouldn't it be a hell of a lot more commonplace? I don't think that the Vogue report means we have mainstream status just yet either.
If that comes across as pessimistic, paranoid or deluded then so be it.
I will still be out and about as usual but as it may be rather balmy, a dress rather than a skirt.
My best advice to encourage the uncertain or unconfident is simple.
Individually you cannot alter the above so ignore it and do the things that please you. Sure you may meet opposition but most of it will be silent so ignore that too if you even become aware of it. For the others, it can actually lead to amazing conversations with all manner of possibilities so learn, enjoy and grow.
Perhaps the mainstream will be reached just that bit sooner with you on board.
Steve.
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crfriend
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by crfriend »

STEVIE wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:42 pm
The proportion of men who would wear skirts openly on any kind of regularity? Skirts as defined above.
The proportion of women who would likely accept the offer of a first or second date from a guy in a skirt or dress?
The proportion of boys say age 8 to 12 who would choose or be allowed to wear a skirt at school?
The next question could be quantifiable;
The proportionate value of skirt sales to men but only related to Menswear revenue.
The above criteria are, indeed, a good starting point -- especially the second one.

I'd add another: "The proportion of employers willing to overlook the act of a guy who wears skirts as "unusual" or "damaging".

Taken in those terms, I'd say we really haven't come that far. Time, as they say, will tell, and time is a great teacher. Unfortunately she kills all her pupils.
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by denimini »

I agree. I suppose that when I say people either accept or don't notice I should also add; or don't overtly display their personal opinions. Just as I don't display mine when I walk past a young sagger with his pants halfway down his butt and the crotch near his knees. It is not so much accepting someone's clothing as being good, OK or appropriate, it is accepting their right to wear what they choose.

As for: The proportion of women who would likely accept the offer of a first or second date from a guy in a skirt or dress? I look at that as one of the valuable filters that is associated with men wearing skirts or anything else associated with being oneself. The same could be said regarding employers, except for a situation where one is desperated for work, which would be a sad situation.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
STEVIE
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by STEVIE »

Hi CR Friend and Denimini
Thanks for your comments.
To anyone else who has read this, can I assume that the lack of reaction is a reasonable indication of your general support for and agreement with the points raised?
Steve.
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Sinned
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by Sinned »

As one whose wife is less than enthusiastic about my skirts I agree with Steve on acceptance. I feel that my skirts are tolerated by my surrounding populace. I have been told by an acquaintance that there are other male skirt wearers in York but I have yet to see any of them. Part of my wife's objection is that she has yet to see any other man in a skirt so from her pov men's skirts are not yet acceptable even though she agrees that I do look good in some, but not all, of my skirts. Since I have always been a bit off-centre in my fashion sense the fact that I am going against the cultural norms is actually more exciting and interesting to me. I like what I like, am not breaking any laws so stuff the "great unwashed". If they don't have the cojones or intelligence to take advantage of one of the most comfortable garments just because of an arbitrary association with females then it's their loss. 8)
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by Stevej180 »

STEVIE wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:42 pm
My contention is that if men wearing skirts is really viewed as normal and totally acceptable in the public eye , wouldn't it be a hell of a lot more commonplace? I don't think that the Vogue report means we have mainstream status just yet either.
I don’t think it will ever become mainstream, as in widespread. But I do think society is generally becoming more open and tolerant of differences in how people express and present themselves (with notable exceptions from time to time of course).

Anything you do that is not mainstream will be noticed. If I go to the supermarket in a skirt, I’m going to get a few stares. But equally, if I went wearing a James Bond tuxedo, or a clown costume, I’d equally get noticed and stared at. I just think as people we’re programmed to identify and react to the unusual, in order to work out if the thing we see is a threat or not. And increasingly non-mainstream clothing choices are recognised as not being a threat, again, in general.

So mainstream? No. Widespread? No. Acceptable? In western society, yes. Just like goths or skinheads or heavily-tattooed people etc.
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by Big and Bashful »

STEVIE wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:43 am
Hi CR Friend and Denimini
Thanks for your comments.
To anyone else who has read this, can I assume that the lack of reaction is a reasonable indication of your general support for and agreement with the points raised?
Steve.
The lack of reaction from me is because I have only just seen this and am now reading it. Watch this space...
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by Big and Bashful »

Okay, I have now read the thread and there is nothing I disagree with. For me wearing a skirt is much less of a spectacle than some folk I have seen; I vaguely remember seeing some guy wandering around a trademarker in some sort of brightly coloured onesie, something like leopard stripes or even louder. That definitely caught the eye more than one of my denim skirts would. Nothing wrong with that, why shouldn't he wear what he wants? He is a braver man than me! I still can't bring myself to wear a light floaty type of skirt in public, I would feel like an elephant in a tutu! Maybe if I wasn't as tall, big shouldered, erm, and corpulent I would find it easier, maybe not.
I really wish I knew one or two others around here who would be happy either to indulge in a bit of skirtery or at least be seen out with a skirted monster! I really like my skater skirts, apart from the pocket lack and am on the verge of wearing them away from the house, I just need some backup to help my brain out, it feels lonely!
I am the God of Hellfire! and I bring you truffles!
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by rode_kater »

I agree. Being (apparently) the only one makes it twice as hard.
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by Kirbstone »

B&B.
I have two pull-on skaters which have slash pockets where they ought to be. Pull-on because their waists are a bit elastic and they have no zips or other closures. Handy. Problem though is they are a tad short.....17" or thereabouts, which for me confines them to the garden & grounds. I won't venture out in anything much above the knee and I don't wear 'long'.

No 'tacit acceptance' from MOH, though.

Tom
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by STEVIE »

Kirbstone wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:28 am
No 'tacit acceptance' from MOH, though.
rode_kater wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:44 pm
I agree. Being (apparently) the only one makes it twice as hard.
Thanks for all the input guys but I chose these rather than quoting for it's own sake.
Kirbstone, Carl said once that "Family is the hardest nut to crack" and a lot of us here know that at first hand experience.
That said, we find ways and "Carpe Diem" is very appropriate and actually good advice in so many ways.
Rode Kater, I doubt that there are many here who wouldn't have felt that isolation either. Sure the cafe is a great place
and I owe a lot for the support over the years. However, kindred spirits are most enjoyed in the real world.
Sinned wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:49 am
I like what I like, am not breaking any laws so stuff the "great unwashed". If they don't have the cojones or intelligence to take advantage of one of the most comfortable garments just because of an arbitrary association with females then it's their loss
Sinned I get the sentiment even if I don't like some of the wording. Worth remembering that about half the population who may or may not approve have never possessed cojones in the first place.
Yup, please yourself as best you can because you will never be able to please everybody else.
I think I rest my case at this point.
Steve.
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Believe it or don't, I remember this from 4th grade history....
You can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
A very true statement but lets replace "fool" with "please" and think about what it means for you...

I never try to please anyone but myself in the way I think, dress or act. So I don't get upset when others disagree with me. It's not my problem it's theirs.

So remember be who you are and let the rest of the world be who they are even if they clash with each other.
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
Always be yourself because the people that matter don’t mind and the ones that mind don’t matter.
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by Sinned »

Steve, just me being bolshy. Someone broke my "Dennis the Menace" mug at work and it upset me because I had had it for over 20 yr=ears and I had a sentimental attachment to it. So I wasn't in the best mood when I wrote it. OK the wording was a bit OTT but I think you get the sentiment behind it. Sorry.

Fred, I think that the quotation is attributed to Abraham Lincoln.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by Uncle Al »

The Abraham Lincoln Association
“You Can Fool All of the People”, Lincoln Never Said That

By Thomas F. Schwartz

Undoubtedly the most famous utterance ever attributed to Lincoln is, “You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” Early recollections place the saying in an 1858 speech Lincoln delivered in Clinton, Illinois. The first appeared in 1904 by E. E. Pierson, who remembered Lewis Campbell, a respected citizen of DeWitt County, telling him of the 1858 speeches that Lincoln and Douglas delivered in Clinton. According to Campbell, Lincoln said, “Judge Douglas cannot fool the people: you may fool people for a time; you can fool a part of the people all the time; but you can’t fool all the people all the time.”
I hope this helps 'clear things up' a bit :)

( I thought it came from P.T.Barnum....WRONG.... :| )

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2018-2022(and the beat goes on ;) )
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I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: Tacit Acceptance.

Post by Big and Bashful »

Kirbstone wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:28 am
B&B.
I have two pull-on skaters which have slash pockets where they ought to be. Pull-on because their waists are a bit elastic and they have no zips or other closures. Handy. Problem though is they are a tad short.....17" or thereabouts, which for me confines them to the garden & grounds. I won't venture out in anything much above the knee and I don't wear 'long'.

No 'tacit acceptance' from MOH, though.

Tom
Hi Tom,
Mine are slightly below the knee, I am always happier with my knees covered, it reduces the chances of someone seeing something they really wouldn't want to. I would stick a photo up but honestly really can't be bothered cutting the resolution down to get the site to accept it, I would rather spend the time working on my canal videos, I need to get some HDD space back!
I am the God of Hellfire! and I bring you truffles!
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