Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Uncle Al
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Uncle Al »

Several years ago, my wife told me she didn't care WHAT I wore as long as
I didn't start wearing bras. She knew me for who, and what, I was.
She supported me, when in college, looking for male panty hose.
Now, rest her soul, I wear WHAT I want, WHEN I want and WHERE I want.
She had no problem with me wearing a kilt. She even liked it. I wore skirts
around the house. No problem. We needed to go to the mall and I told her
that I wasn't planning on changing clothes. She thought a moment, then we left.

Her fear surfaced as we saw some relatives. She was terrified when they saw
us at the mall. As we were talking, she blurted out "He's wearing a skirt".
They just brushed it off as no big deal.
From that moment on, S m o o t h - S a i l i n g :!:

Boy, I sure do miss her. :|

Uncle Al
:mrgreen: :santa: :mrgreen:
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on ;) )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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mishawakaskirt
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by mishawakaskirt »

Regarding the comments on Lack of availability
On page 5.

There is a lack of availability of comparable priced men's skirts. While There are a few companies now making men's skirts. But the price point is much higher than that of trousers. Not only that you have to order them online.
And Hope you get the size right.
For a man the concept of wearing a skirt is unfamiliar territory.

Eliminate a percentage of men just because the concept is unfamiliar

eliminate a large percentage curious men for not wanting to cross the aisle into women's. (,The taboo)

Eliminate a percentage of men that are not internet, computer tech savvy enough to order a skirt.

Eliminate a percentage of men that don't want to spend alot of money on a "probably a whim or lark" of trying a skirt.

Eliminate those that are concerned that the online order might not fit, and I will have to fiddle with the returns.

Eliminate all the men afraid of being labeled, trans, sissy, gay or what not.

Eliminate a percentage that know the wife won't go for it.

Eliminate a percentage of those men that are completely happy in trousers.

After you eliminate all these percentages of men, there's not a lot of men left to go buy a skirt.

Just us fine folks that said damn the torpedoes and bought a skirt.

Speaking from my personal experiences.
I have been wearing skirts part time for 25 years now, married for 18, so I am no stranger to skirts and women's things. Yet I still get uncomfortable shopping for skirts in the woman's department. If there are women in the skirt aisle at my resale shop, I usually wait until they have left the aisle, before I enter, once In the aisle, I stick it out, even if a new woman enters the area. certainly will never shop for a skirt while wearing a skirt, like some have done or suggested. I still cringe when my wife is like "here hold my purse" I have been sent to the store to purchase feminine hygiene (the monthly kind,) , I use a self checkout machine. I definitely will never wear a skirt or kilt to buy those needs for my wife. So even as someone that is not afraid of putting on a skirt, I still have some of the feminine taboo hangups.
Mishawakaskirt @2wayskirt on Twitter

Avoid the middle man, wear a kilt or skirt.
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Sinned
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Sinned »

No shame in having hangups, they are there to ease your anxiety. I have shopped for skirts while wearing a skirt and it's actually no big deal. But then I have other hangups about dresses that others don't have. You can only chip away at them at your own pace as it's only by facing things that you will make progress. My wife and I bought some Christmas dresses with sleeves and the usual symbols of candy canes and others on them. I want to wear one of the dresses on Christmas Day and try and persuade my wife to wear her matching one. Whether she will or not I don't know; I hope she will.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by FLbreezy »

moonshadow wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:33 pm I struck a balance between my mind, my soul, and my biology, I can live my life freely, and not forsake any part of what I am simply by being honest with myself.... I am a human male, very much in tune with his feminine side.
I feel like this is where I am, I'm definitely male but I don't mind enjoying things which may be stereotypically female...life is too short to stay in a box and wonder what's outside it.

I was just thinking how having a kilt or skirt on makes me feel happy, the way it's comfortable and flows around my legs and just seems pleasant in a very low-key way.

I play a lot of video games in my spare time, and it seems like I've been gravitating towards playing as female characters when there's a choice. Part of it is that old "well, if I'm going to spend 40-50 hours staring at someone's backside while I'm playing, it might as well be a pleasant backside" saying. But then you look at the options to choose clothing and appearance and the female characters usually have so many more options and freedom, and that part is fun too. So I've come around to "well, if I can enjoy that freedom of expression in pretend-life, why not enjoy it in real-life?" and that's a very satisfying thing indeed.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by TheSkirtedMan »

moonshadow wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:33 pm I struck a balance between my mind, my soul, and my biology, I can live my life freely, and not forsake any part of what I am simply by being honest with myself.... I am a human male, very much in tune with his feminine side.
Very well said.

Men in skirts, even invading the female wardrobe as a man, is not a sexual fetish or gender expression for me. If it is then the same needs to be applied to women. That is the trouble with society, hypocrisy between the genders with regards expectations. For me, being a man in a skirt is simply me embracing my freedom of choice, expression and individuality just as women claim with regards their clothing choice.
Be yourself because an original is worth more than a copy.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Yonkas »

I bristle when people bring sexual fetish into this topic. I can't help but feel how absurd it is to even bring it up.

Imagine if somebody asked me if I have a sexual fetish for having a sweet tooth, or for enjoying videogames. It would be completely out of place for them to do this, because there's no reason to ask it. I mean, sure, rule 34 demands that there will always be somebody with a fetish for any given subject. And, to be sure, I am not denigrating people with such fetishes. But, frankly, it's besides the point, and, more importantly, none of anybody else's damn business. Hell, I am sure there are women who get all steamy at the thought of throwing on some dungarees.

Skirts are an adornment for one's body. That's all. There are as many reasons a person might prefer them as there are for why a person might enjoy wearing hats. In my case, they have particular aesthetic, and physical qualities that I like, which pants, and contemporary male clothing, in general, cannot provide. Furthermore, if they made affordable skirts for men, in a heartbeat, I would adopt them. I don't appreciate the fact that the clothes I like to wear are tailored to the female body, and that my shirts, which are almost all men's shirts (because women's shirts look awful on me), often fail at complementing my skirts (I mean, Jesus Christ! It's like they think men want their sweaters to emphasize their paunch).

It's a preference, like preferring cupcakes to ice cream, or salad to steak. Imagine how stupid it would be if half the world's population were seen as deviant for preferring to eat hamburgers. It would be utter nonsense.

I mean, this isn't really that difficult to wrap your head around, and yet people act like it is fundamentally almost impossible to understand like freaking Quantum Field Theory, because OMG, DOESN'T HE KNOW HE HAS A PENIS? Calm down, people. Just, calm down. Go back to your unremarkable lives, where nobody will ever remember you because you were too scared to stand out, and let me have my fun while I still breathe.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Yonkas »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:50 am
Stu wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:54 pm True, there is no law - but there doesn't need to be a law. All they need to do is:

1. Apply intense social pressure to make skirt-wearing by males a taboo, and they achieve that by conflating it with femininity, or transsexualism etc. The media supports this line. Males who do wear them are either ostracised or presented as oddballs.

2. Lack of availability. Mainstream suppliers stock zero male skirts. They do not market them for men or boys or depict men or boys wearing them. Males generally then have to source them from women's suppliers, effectively forcing them to cross-dress and then we are back to Problem 1.

Who needs a law?
Again, who is "they?"

"ostracized ... oddballs" for crying out loud, Vogue not only gave Harry Styles a full spread, they put him on the front cover! If people dismiss him as an oddball it sure hasn't hurt his social life. The women in his life are unfailingly beautiful and accomplished in their own right. If that's what comes of being viewed an oddball, bring it on! Please!!!

Yes, skirts and dresses are associated with femininity, but you said it yourself, in this or another thread; everyone's personality is a blend of so-called masculine and feminine traits. So, a man expressing his feminine side by wearing a skirt or dress doesn't diminish his masculinity, nor make him less of a man; in a way, it makes him more of a man because he knows who he is and displays that confidently.

What "intense social pressure?" I don't get any, unless you count 1, count it 1, bit of flashback per year.

What "Lack of availability?" Are you kidding me? The stores have several times more skirts and dresses than pants! Soi what if you have to go to the women's department? No one cares! The sales associates sure don't; to a person they have been as eager to help me as anyone else. Step into a dress shop and the social pressure will be for you to try on a dress or skirt. If not several!

So, what's the "men's rights" issue here?! I'm not seeing it.

Just this afternoon I had an interview via Microsoft Team and there I was in my bright blue Halston A-line dress and Evan Picone jacket and if anything, that gave me an advantage over my unseen, unknown competition for the position, because the Human Resources manager I was meeting with said that they look for a candidate's quirkiness and mine was on full display!
I feel like you are oversimplifying, here. There is intense social pressure, whether we like it, or not--at least in the US. Over here, a person can be fired for any reason that is not protected by labor laws. That gives employers much latitude getting rid of "unsightly" employees. Sure, they often can't outright say they've fired you for gender expression, but that doesn't stop them for firing you for "showing up a minute late", or "not fitting in with company culture".
I say this as a man, who is fortunate enough to be able to wear skirts to work. It does impact us. In fact, I am convinced that part of the reason why I had such a bad time at my last job is because of my skirt wearing for various reasons. I can't be certain of this, but I also can't discount it as the reason people started sabotaging me. And I am at least aware that somebody, at some point, came to my boss and complained about my skirt wearing.

Even worse, it might affect our loved ones far more than we even realize. I only recently became aware of how much my skirt wearing adversely affects my wife's comfort level, even though she accepts it (and has even bought me skirts as gifts). Because people wouldn't dare directly address me, more often than not, they address my wife. It also singles us out, which is not preferred, and even though I have accepted the attention that my skirt-wearing draws, my wife is less comfortable with that fact (and it doesn't help that she's already othered quite significantly in another way as one of 2 black teachers in a mostly white district). Recently, she expressed her concern to me that we might be missing opportunities because she has an openly skirt-wearing husband.

This is a men's rights issue. Just because an injustice isn't codified into law, that does not mean that rights aren't being systemically infracted.

And as for you point that it's easy to find a womens' skirt, that's true, but it's besides the point. For you it might be easy to throw on an outfit tailored for womens' bodies, but this is not so for everyone. Skirts are part of an outfit, which means, unless you are going topless, you need a top to complement it. Unfortunately, I find that most men's tops look terrible with a skirt.

If you tuck them in, they bunch up and accentuate your gut. If you leave them untucked, they're often too long, or they taper at the bottom and end up bunching up the skirt. Furthermore, I simply don't like the look of most shirts without flat-bottomed hems over skirts. It looks slovenly to me. Unfortunately, it is difficult to find long-sleeved, flat-bottom-hemmed shirts that don't also hug your waist and bunch up your skirt.

Then there's the pattern/color matching issue. Color coordination is hard enough for a man, who, like most men, are raised without any training in it. But since shirts are the primary means for men to express themselves, men's shirts are often patterned in motifs that flagrantly conflict with skirts.

And forget about women's tops for me. I have tried them, and they just don't work out--especially since I lack breasts.

If somebody made an honest effort into designing skirted mens' outfits, I guarantee you that I wouldn't have such difficulty finding a shirt to match my skirts.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by crfriend »

Yonkas wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:47 pmThis is a men's rights issue. Just because an injustice isn't codified into law, that does not mean that rights aren't being systemically infracted.
Absolutely.
And as for you point that it's easy to find a womens' skirt, that's true, but it's besides the point. For you it might be easy to throw on an outfit tailored for womens' bodies, but this is not so for everyone. Skirts are part of an outfit, which means, unless you are going topless, you need a top to complement it. Unfortunately, I find that most men's tops look terrible with a skirt.
I've found that men's dress shirts along with waistcoats (vests) can look very, very good with skirts and offer further opportunities (and confusion!) for expression with colour, cut, and fabric. Waistcoats also solve the bunching issue with most men's shirts by simply hiding it. Perhaps this might work for you, perhaps not -- it all depends on body-type and overall geometry.
Then there's the pattern/color matching issue. Color coordination is hard enough for a man, who, like most men, are raised without any training in it. But since shirts are the primary means for men to express themselves, men's shirts are often patterned in motifs that flagrantly conflict with skirts.
This can be solved by the application of science and willpower. Colour-coordination is a leaned art, and one that takes an application of will to learn -- but it is learnable and once basic knowledge is had, occasionally "breaking the rules" can work quite well indeed. Note that this mostly applies to solids; patterns cause further confusion, so if you have a patterned shirt, best to pair it with a solid skirt. Or break the direct interface by wearing something else, e.g. a jacket or a waistcoat.
And forget about women's tops for me. I have tried them, and they just don't work out--especially since I lack breasts.
Yes, this can be a minefield and is highly dependent on your personal physique. I have a few women's blouses (mainly designed for rather "flat" women) and they work well enough, and I also have a few dresses, but those in the main have to be bespoke.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Sinned »

Like Carl I find that men's ( dress/button down ) shirts work well with skirts. I wear them both a lot. Because our country is hardly well known for being warm I wear a jumper/pullover/sweater over the shirt. As for colour co-ordination the colour wheel is useful. Adjacent or opposite colours are safe, in general.

Body geometry has to be the guide. I can wear women's tops as some are designed for the less well endowed. I also haven't a problem wearing skirts designed for women as all the skirts I have come into this category except for my one kilt.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Dust »

For us thinner guys, to get a men's shirt that works well with a skirt, you often need to go to a slim fit shirt. A baggy shirt tucked into a skirt often looks bad. A bulkier looking skirt (or even a kilt or Utilikilt) will work better with a looser fitting shirt, and may be easier to pair with standard guy's attire.

Also, what Carl said about vests.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by denimini »

I quite like the style of some men's shirts but I find that most are too long and if tucked in they can protrude below the hem of my skirt like a wayward petticoat and I hitch a bit up above the belt. If not tucked in it can look like I am not wearing anything else, in fact some shirts I think I could wear as a mini dress.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Midas »

I wear men's T-shirts and Polo shirts some of the time but prefer shirts from the women's department. I have some Polo shirts, loose fitting T-shirts and fitted T-shirts and tops. All are softer to the touch and less bulky that the men's shirts, which as always with men's clothes are over engineered. I haven't bought anything from the men's department for a few years now and don't intend to do so again.

I wear dresses a lot of the time, but when I've got a skirt on I currently tend to wear the women's fitted tops, either T-shirts or slash neck fitted tops with three-quarter sleeves, which i like. Three-quarter sleeves (which are also on a number of my dresses) are good to wear and another example of the choice denied those who wear men's clothes.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Grok »

crfriend wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:19 pm
I've found that men's dress shirts along with waistcoats (vests) can look very, very good with skirts and offer further opportunities (and confusion!) for expression with colour, cut, and fabric. Waistcoats also solve the bunching issue with most men's shirts by simply hiding it. Perhaps this might work for you, perhaps not -- it all depends on body-type and overall geometry.
Then there's the pattern/color matching issue. Color coordination is hard enough for a man, who, like most men, are raised without any training in it. But since shirts are the primary means for men to express themselves, men's shirts are often patterned in motifs that flagrantly conflict with skirts.
.
Dress shirt + waistcoat + skirt = beginnings of a skirt suit. Add a tie, and nice shoes.

Which leads to the topic of style.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Grok »

I think one pattern-a pinstripe shirt-might work. I am thinking of very narrow stripes.

As there are no rules in regards to MIS, I think that a skirt might become the primary means of personal expression.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Sinned »

Yonkas, I take your points about the discomfort of others when they accompany you out while you are wearing a skirt. I have the same conflict and don't wish to subject her my wife to such feelings so I would never force the issue. If I felt that there was a reluctance to accompany me out and knew that she was feeling distinctly uncomfortable then I would rather wear jeans/trousers easing her feelings even if they were bought from t'other aisle. I am grateful for the tolerance that she does show.
Last edited by Sinned on Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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