Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
pelmut
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by pelmut »

Jim wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:02 pm
Many babies are missing the healthiest food because of our society's attitude toward breasts.
Well said! My mother was pressured into bottle-feeding me and I nearly died of gastro-enteritis because of lack of immunity.  Thank goodness those attitudes are changing, partly as the result of better medical information.

Now if only we could persuade men that skirt-wearing increased sperm count and made you more virile...
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
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Sinned
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Sinned »

pelmut, the mental image of Rambo in a UK!!!! :lol:
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Most of what I would have said about this topic has already been said and usually expressed better than I would have.

I'm sorry I've lost track of who started this thread, but I'm grateful for it and that once we got beyond taking quoting Trump as a personal affront, we got some serious discussion of serious issues.

As I see it, the overriding issue here is that to the extent that men who wear skirts are looked upon or treated with disdain, it's the result of the position of women in our so-called advanced society. When we wear a piece of womenswear in the eyes of the disdainful we are lowering ourselves to the same position as a woman. Or worse yet, implying that women are our equals. If we accept that, why shouldn't we put on clothing made for them along with the social baggage that Stu correctly implied comes along with it?

What he missed is that in fact throughout the Westernized world, women hold an inferior place in society. They do not hold their fair share of leadership positions in business, government and religion. This can't just be coincidence or explained away.

One of our posters from the Land Down Under asked if his country is being driven backwards by its government or if its drop on the Gender Equality Index is driven by other countries progressing more rapidly. Fortunately, it's the latter.

So, to be clear, I feel that both the specific and general aims of International Women's Day are to our advantage. I know that the freedom I feel from dressing and presenting myself as I have wanted to my whole life goes far beyond the clothes themselves. I'm a very different person than I was before I made that change and I'm firmly convinced I've changed for the better. Which to me is just another example of how true it is that, "No one is free until everyone is free."

The more equal women are to men the easier it will be for men to dress like women. Similarly, the more often and more fully we dress like women, the more we free everyone, men and women, will be from the Gender Binary.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with what is meant by the Gender Binary it comes down to the following. There are only Men and Women. (Not true, there are also people who are Intersexed, what we used to call Hermaphrodites. And not even that term nails things down because there are a significant number of people who to all appearances, including while stark naked, are males or females but who don't have the typical XY or XX chromosomes.). Men are only sexually attracted to Women and vice versa. (We all know better than that!). Because of these distinct differences, Men have certain psychological, character and personality characteristics we call Masculine and Women have the polar opposite set of characteristics we call Feminine (Wrong again! They're distributed between Males and Females along a normal bimodal distribution and there are very definite differences in those definitions from one culture to another around this world. Furthermore, a large number of cultures recognize a 3rd and sometimes 4th gender that is a blend of Masculine and Feminine.). And therefore, certain jobs and roles are the sole province of Men and the opposite jobs and roles are the proper place of Women (Try selling that one in this day and age! Or even make a reasonable case for it.). Ditto with societal roles, clothes, etc. (Stu, to the extent that you think that you should be able to wear a skirt when and where you want to, YOU reject the Gender Binary.).

My rejecting the Gender Binary doesn't mean that I don't believe there are differences between Men and Women. Of course there are. Every time I get dressed I'm reminded of some of them. Nor does it mean that most women are more feminine than most men and vice versa. But it does mean that individual women and men aren't restricted to any given set of jobs, societal roles, choice of lovers or manner of dress. And I'm absolutely sure that there's nothing inferior or superior of one set of characteristics, roles, etc. than another. We all have our roles to play. Biology isn't destiny. And for damned sure, there's nothing unnatural about any of these variations from the Gender Binary, for most of the ways a person varies, they were born that way! Or at least with the predispositions.

It's not just chromosomes. It's also prenatal influences in Mom's womb, which are affected by what's happening to Mom, how she's feeling and what's she doing. It's how those influences affect our chromosomes and Mom's. And from there the hall of mirrors gets dizzyingly long. For instance, social researchers in Great Britain were able to identify an unusually large percentage of male homosexuals as having been born around the time of the WWII Blitz. They traced that increase back to the additional stress their mothers were under from the Blitz during the pregnancies.

The attendant straightjackets are what needs to be upended about the Gender Binary, not the notion that there are males and females. And yeah, every time you put on ANYTHING from the other side of the aisle, you're subverting that Binary.

Viva La Revolution!
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Amen Brother Dave preach on!!!
Fred :kiltdance:

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Freedomforall
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Freedomforall »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:31 am


The more equal women are to men the easier it will be for men to dress like women. Similarly, the more often and more fully we dress like women, the more we free everyone, men and women, will be from the Gender Binary.


Viva La Revolution!
I hypothesize this very statement was said by women when they were attempting to wear pants. I ask you are we any further now?
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Jim
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Jim »

Freedomforall wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:51 pm
Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:31 am


The more equal women are to men the easier it will be for men to dress like women. Similarly, the more often and more fully we dress like women, the more we free everyone, men and women, will be from the Gender Binary.


Viva La Revolution!
I hypothesize this very statement was said by women when they were attempting to wear pants. I ask you are we any further now?
Yes, very much so. Women may now wear pants almost anywhere without people thinking it odd. More that that, that was part of the movement that has finally made sexual harassment unacceptable to a lot larger part of the population, as well as men and women being a lot freer to choose jobs without regard for the jobs' traditional gender assignment.
Coder
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Coder »

So... any pictures from the march? Did it happen?
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Faldaguy »

After all the commotion, a bunch of unexpected items arose and I did not get to the local march. Some were cancelled, but hundreds took place about the world. I'm not sure how much was covered with all the "virus" news. It is an annual affair, so I expect we will all have another opportunity! :) (BTW, I decided to keep it low-key and simple, was set to just wear a long denim skirt, as it was cold and I did not wish to offend or draw attention to myself on a march for others. The issues are probably not new to this site, but for those of us new to the site, the discussion is useful.
(Faldaguy)
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Fred, thank you for support and accolade.

Freedomforall, I entirely back what Jim said in his reply to you. Because, as a matter of fact when Emily Bloomer first advocated for what came to be called "bloomers" (They looked like harem pants and were originated by a friend of hers. Emily published a women's magazine.) it was for the freedom, starting with freedom of movement, that pants afforded women. As to whether we're further along than we were a few years ago, ABSOLUTELY! As recently as the Aughts going to work in a dress on a regular basis was pure fantasy; now it's a reality for a good number of us. Just as one for instance. What makes you think we aren't moving forward on gaining acceptance and the personal freedom that goes along with it?

Jim, thank you for jumping in with your answer to Freedom's question. When I said that others had address the issues raised in this thread more elegantly and succinctly than I would have, your contributions were among those I had in mind. Thank you for all of that.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
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Freedomforall
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Freedomforall »

Here is an article detailing a feminist group and treatment by leaders of the group. I think this is a complete abuse of power by the leaders who display elitist attitudes and racism towards members. The actions by the leaders of this group are prime examples of why I feel that we are never as advanced as we think we are.

https://jezebel.com/the-wings-feminist- ... el_twitter
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SkirtsDad
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by SkirtsDad »

Freedomforall wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:34 pm
Here is an article detailing a feminist group and treatment by leaders of the group. I think this is a complete abuse of power by the leaders who display elitist attitudes and racism towards members. The actions by the leaders of this group are prime examples of why I feel that we are never as advanced as we think we are.

https://jezebel.com/the-wings-feminist- ... el_twitter
It is not a women's movement, it is a business. It sells expensive monthly memberships to women whilst promoting tself as working for the advancement of women..... the founding women perhaps! That is not the same as equality and feminism and has nothing to do with international women's Day.
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Freedomforall
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Freedomforall »

SkirtsDad wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:05 am
Freedomforall wrote:
Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:34 pm
Here is an article detailing a feminist group and treatment by leaders of the group. I think this is a complete abuse of power by the leaders who display elitist attitudes and racism towards members. The actions by the leaders of this group are prime examples of why I feel that we are never as advanced as we think we are.

https://jezebel.com/the-wings-feminist- ... el_twitter
It is not a women's movement, it is a business. It sells expensive monthly memberships to women whilst promoting tself as working for the advancement of women..... the founding women perhaps! That is not the same as equality and feminism and has nothing to do with international women's Day.
Perhaps I am misreading their website or misreading your interpretation of their mission. According to their site, they are a movement that was founded in the 19th century.

https://www.the-wing.com/who-we-are/
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Freedomforall
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Freedomforall »

This is a direct quote from their site.

"FOUNDING MOTHERS
The women’s club movement was formed in the 19th and early 20th century by pioneering women who provided each other with encouraging community at a time when they needed it most. "
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by moonshadow »

Damn! $186 per month for basic membership??

Not that I could join (have the wrong plumbing) nor would I really want to regardless... but damn!

Whatever floats der boat I guess...

As for equality... good luck. I couldn't care less at this point.

Everybody wants to be treated fairly, nobody wants to play fair. That's the world... that's humanity... always been that way, always will be.
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Freedomforall
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Re: Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

Post by Freedomforall »

moonshadow wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 3:36 pm
Damn! $186 per month for basic membership??

Not that I could join (have the wrong plumbing) nor would I really want to regardless... but damn!

Whatever floats der boat I guess...

As for equality... good luck. I couldn't care less at this point.

Everybody wants to be treated fairly, nobody wants to play fair. That's the world... that's humanity... always been that way, always will be.
YES!! that is exactly what I am talking about!
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