Getting found out - sorta???

[moonshadow]

I know this sounds horrible - like I’m a monster.

Nah, you're not a monster, you're a man. And as is usually the case with a man, you're having to choose between your own soul
and what the world expects from you.

Most people don't understand this. Women don't because they are socially allowed to express themselves any way they wish or need to and most men gladly sell their soul for the riches of the world.

The man who yearns for freedom will find himself constantly struggling to satisfy that freedom all the while managing to put food on the table. It's not easy and anyone who calls you a monster for following your heart on such an innocent endeavor is the real monster.

[mishawakaskirt]

Regarding relationships that could potentially become a spouse.
In all matter of fairness and ethics. They need to know about your skirt wearing before you say "I do"

Sadly for some women you wearing skirts may be a deal breaker. That needs to be decided before the engagement rings.

Or most likely you will be in a strained relationship all of your days.

The relationship will be worse off the longer you wait.
That being said, I wouldn't wear a skirt on a first date.

I told my then girlfriend, now my wife, before we got engaged.

If I could do it all over again I would have tried to tell her sooner. And have told her in a different way, I had myself and what I was about to tell her trumped up so much, she later said she thought I was going to tell her that I had killed someone or was in trouble with the law.

Be careful to not back yourself into a corner.
Saying that you will give up skirts for her.


Taking a date to a Celtic festival or to a Scottish themed pub, bar and grill. Not only can be a very fun date. It would potentially be a good way to open the door to discussion. Or wear a kilt on that date and to see how she reacts to kilts.

There are three kinds of women.
Those who don't like men in kilts.
Those who like men in kilts except their boyfriend or husband. (What will the neighbors or my family think? Those fears are usually at play,)
And those who love any man in a kilt.


Going back to social cost. You will become "that guy" in a kilt. In the store. The neighborhood, mall, etc. You will meet alot of curious people, and occasionally a real jerk.

Just don't be a jerk back. Be a positive ambassador for the kilt or skirt in everything you do.

[Coder]

I’ve read enough that I know clothing can be pretty significant for SO’s - actually if I was engaged and my fiancée shaved her head and started wearing plaid shirts (well, it would depend on the cut of the shirt and if it looked good on her or not) I might start having second thoughts too. So I really don’t want to go out there and fake who I am, and right now I do that every day to some extent.

Looks like I can get Braveheart on showtime, so am going to try and suggest that for tonight - my sister is in town for a while so I’ll be able to gauge her reaction too.

IMHO I’ve tried a kilt (solid color duck fabric) and was OK with it but it didn’t make me want to buy more. But if I need to use it as a transition garment, then so be it.

[PatJ]

Regarding relationships that could potentially become a spouse.
In all matter of fairness and ethics. They need to know about your skirt wearing before you say "I do"

Sadly, many a man will marry a woman hoping that she will never change, but she does,
and many a woman will marry a man planning to change him. but he never does.

There are no guarantees that knowing in the beginning will make it OK in the future,
but I agree, knowing from the get-go is the best policy.

[Coder]

Sadly, many a man will marry a woman hoping that she will never change, but she does,
and many a woman will marry a man planning to change him. but he never does.

There are no guarantees that knowing in the beginning will make it OK in the future,
but I agree, knowing from the get-go is the best policy.

I've heard this happens - and seriously something that would need to be understood. A few marriages in our parish ended because of this sort of thing (not skirts, mind you).

[Coder]

Non-update to this thread. Still haven't breached the subject - but will bring up the purse tonight.

[Dust]

I first wore a Utilikilt around my now wife while we were just dating. She's fine with them. Her parents and siblings are fine with them. And her parents are very conservative and religious. So you never know. But I was open about it from the beginning.

My wife actually told her parents about my kilts and asked if it was okay for me to wear them around her much younger siblings before I wore one to their house. (I think the youngest was about 10 years old at the time.) The answer came back that as long as it was around knee length or more, I was fine. This was the same rule that they had for the girls' skirts.

I get the heartburn from my family, where it is a CHANGE. They know, but don't seem to approve, so I don't wear kilts/skirts around them. I suppose it helps that I don't live with them anymore. At the same time, I wish I had fully addressed things with them a long time ago.

[Coder]

Non-update to this thread. Still haven't breached the subject - but will bring up the purse tonight.

Well, she had no memory of the bag, personally I was using it as a way for me to start a conversation, was hoping she had. Did discuss fashion but didn’t get to the point of telling her about skirts - dropped some opening hints. She even said “no one cares what you wear, they aren’t paying attention to you” in context of me not wearing normal stuff I’m afraid to.

Anyhow, in talking with someone - their advice is to just rip the bandaid off.

On a side note, my sister said to me this morning “My friend has the same boots as you, except her’s don’t have the white trim”. I mean... is she BLIND? What is she trying to say? I have a pair of black rubber rocket dog chelsea boots - they aren’t obviously women’s but if you look at the tag it’s pretty obvious. I’m sure she knows certain fashion brands by now... I tend to overthink things.

[crfriend]

Anyhow, in talking with someone - their advice is to just rip the bandaid off.

Yes, that's usually the correct advice. You'll initially be uncomfortable but that'll pass with time and experience. Also, DO NOT "ask permission" as that won't be granted, especially by family [1]; assert yourself as if it's a right.

I tend to overthink things.

That's a vice that plenty of folks have, this writer included. Sometimes it turns into a rabbit-hole, and that's where it has to stop. Perhaps the most important -- and relevant -- question one can ask himself before committing an act -- any act -- is, "Will this cause real harm to another?" Note that the emphasis is on real; if the answer is, "No", then go for it. Real harm does not include "offending tender sensibilities", although it's always nice to not offer unintended offence.


[1] Parents (at least good ones) will instinctively attempt to protect their child [2] and keep the child from making "poor decisions" that might have downstream effect; wives/girlfriends will be worried about how the change will affect their status in the community and will generally oppose the notion.
[2] The actual age of the "child" doesn't matter very much; I'm pushing 60 and to my surviving family I'm still "the baby" even though I've been an independent self-supporting adult for more than 40 years.

[Coder]

My default nature is to ask permission for ANYTHING. I am independent at work, but at the same token this disposition makes me an excellent drone. And sometimes people tell me, quite literally, “You don’t need to ask permission” about things.

I guess - I don’t know how to be assertive. I could watch some YouTube videos - but seriously - what words does one use? I feel like “I want to” is kinda weak. But “I’m going to” feels too strong. A word like “need” is odd only that I really only need basic essentials (air, water, food, shelter)... everything else is just a perk.

[shadowfax]

I’m an adult - with a very good job, one that encourages diversity so much you get sick of it. Not to blast diversity. And I live at home which presents some challenges.

And that is what’s been tearing me apart these past few years. I feel like I’ve avoided a relationship because of my closeted skirt wearing - maybe the whole being at home too. I can’t rightly get into a relationship and get married and be like, “Hey wife, I have some unique fashion choices I’ve never told you about...”. Or I just die alone, which I’m mot quite resigned to, yet.

So I figure going to work skirted solves some major issues - it makes me more authentic to myself and others, and will give me a confidence boost when/if I start dating, if that’s for me. Otherwise 50-60 years from now they’ll find me sitting in a rocking chair a desiccated skeleton because I’m a loner (ok, I sometimes have a dark sense of humor).

Here's an idea. Tell your mother that there is a diversity day at work and go in to work skirted. Your employer shouldn't mind you spending the day skirted and a work colleague (or two?) might like your clothing style enough to become a closer friend to you.
If your mother hates seeing you skirted then blame it all on your employer pushing their diversity policies a bit too much.

[kingfish]

I'm reminded of the old saying: "The truth will set you free"

The outcomes can vary from positive to negative.

I got profoundly lucky in that my mother and sisters were positive about it. They actually showed encouragement in the matter. I actually got a couple of skirts from them. My father was accepting of it.

With my wife, I got acceptance. And I broached this subject rather early. Our first genuinely passionate kiss didn't come until after seeing no negative reactions going out with me in a tropical shirt and sarong.

Later on, this did get tempered a bit by the intolerance I received from my inlaws. In particular, the influence my mother-in-law had on my (then) fiancee attitude regarding it. Sterotypes and the prejudice from it, if not their own insecurities rubbing off.

Your discussion on the subject can come with you normally dressed and presented either with some selfies or downloaded looks that you identify with. If you think that will help, you are welcome to pull any of mine from this site.

[crfriend]

I guess - I don’t know how to be assertive. I could watch some YouTube videos [...]

I rather doubt that one can get the needed advice from YouTube. This is the sort of thing that only comes with experience (i.e. "making enough mistakes so you learn from them") and personal security.

[... W]hat words does one use? I feel like “I want to” is kinda weak. But “I’m going to” feels too strong. A word like “need” is odd only that I really only need basic essentials (air, water, food, shelter)... everything else is just a perk.

"I want", is fine as it indicates interest and a drive to get somewhere. "I am going to" indicates intent and determination. Both work, but the latter means you're going to make good on the former, which in most things is laudable. As far as "need" goes, a decent starting-point is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs which reasonably cogently sets out what's needed to be a fully-functioning human being. He's a bit heavy on certain things, but it's a decent overall framework.

The important thing to remember is that all progress happens at the very periphery of our "comfort-zones". Being well inside is cosy and stable, but to actually achieve things means pushing boundaries, mostly those of experience, confidence, and intelligence -- and that can be distinctly uncomfortable. This is a fundamental part of being fully human.

Bluntly, the world isn't terribly sympathetic to wimps. We are informed that, "The meek shall inherit the Earth", but without the brave, the meek won't flourish. In this instance, bravery does not denote macho bravado, but rather the drive and desire to dare to do new things and explore new spaces. Recall that better than a half-century ago men dared to sit atop rockets and venture to the moon -- and we've been going full steam in reverse ever since.

To touch for a moment on steam, where would the world be today had James Watt (a perennial favourite of James Burke in his Connections series, which I heartily recommend) never dared to harness the power of boiled water? Sure, we never would have had the Titanic or the Sultana, but then again, we wouldn't have had Great Eastern either.

[skirtyscot]

James Burke in Connections - there's a blast from the past! Must have been 40 years ago, if not more.

[crfriend]

James Burke in Connections - there's a blast from the past! Must have been 40 years ago, if not more.

Not quite, but close enough. I have oft been accused of having a long memory, which is reasonably accurate.

My late ex- and I likely got independently acquainted with the series at about the same time, and she pointed her father at it. He was a chemical engineer and commented, "It makes the head spin! More, please!" Both were remarkable people, and I miss them.