How many is enough to normalise us?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby moonshadow » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:41 pm

I sense it too. Occasionally someone is downright blatant about their disapproval. But like kingfish observes, its not all that common.

But the stereotypes are there. We all live our lives in different regions of the planet. Appalachia is far removed from the major cities of the west coast both in geography and culture.

I dont know how well someone like Dave would fare where I live. He may do okay, I suppose it just depends on his charisma. I will admit I am lacking in that area. But its not the skirts fault, "fitting in" is something I've always struggled with.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Grok » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:21 pm

kingfish wrote: I don't know where else to attribute this difference except to the "cd/tv/lgbt=sexual deviant" stereotype.
Well, to explain such strange garb people need some sort of box to put the skirted in. Trans is the current cause, so that might be it. And there is always the option of the gay box.

It is inconceivable that a male might want to wear a skirt simply because he likes skirts. It simply isn't on the radar. And if you don a kilt, people can attribute that to the heritage thing.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby kingfish » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:01 pm

Grok wrote:Well, to explain such strange garb people need some sort of box to put the skirted in. Trans is the current cause, so that might be it. And there is always the option of the gay box.

It is inconceivable that a male might want to wear a skirt simply because he likes skirts. It simply isn't on the radar. And if you don a kilt, people can attribute that to the heritage thing.


That whole categorization business is what brought me to the conclusion that we're surrounded by morons.

And heck yeah, the kilt does get the Scottish heritage tag. The #1 small-talk/icebreaker question I get when I'm wearing anything kilt like involves the bagpipes I don't play.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Grok » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:05 pm

I once walked into a fast food place, and an employee asked me where my bagpipes were-and I was wearing a Utilikilt.

And a (former) house mate gave me plaid socks to go with the Utilikilt. He-seriously-thought the outfit needed a Scottish touch.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby lazerr » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:10 pm

I got the "Bagpipes" comment just 2 weeks ago. A security guard at a shop said to me "obviously you play the bagpipes". Not sure how to respond to such a comment so I simply said "no, that is one instrument that I haven't tried".. I smiled and moved on.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Grok » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:15 pm

My ancestry on my mother's side of the family is Scottish. But utility kilts are too new to be anybody's heritage. But the word "kilt" leads to the convenient Scottish heritage box.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby lazerr » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:22 pm

While I have Scottish and Irish in my blood, I don't see how that has anything to do with what I wear. I have no knowledge of any historic precedents that would mean I would wear a kilt, to the contrary, I've not seen, or heard of anyone in my family wearing a kilt. I do actually like the look of many kilts, but, since I have no knowledge I don't even try to participate in the heritage look. I also have no drive to do it, any more than wearing the fashions of my grandfather (or grandmother).
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Grok » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:30 pm

I think kilting can be divided into three basic categories:

1. The Scottish kilts. Tartan motif. Includes the Great Kilt.

2. The Irish kilts. This category includes garments in solid colors-saffron, and I believe green as well.

3. The modern utility kilts. Inspired by the above, but the "blue jeans" of kilts. Includes good pockets.

Potential for bleed over-a male wearing a woman's kilted-skirt. The Madras kilt was almost but not quite.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby kingfish » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:15 pm

Grok wrote: Potential for bleed over-a male wearing a woman's kilted-skirt.


I've experienced that bleed over, big time.

Pleats, apron style front, plaid color scheme. . . Two out of three of these typically cause a default identification of kilt.

The good news about the kilt tag and its associated clean stereotypes have brought about near-normal status. This has the hetero ladies outside my field of view wondering on the #1 mystery (undergarment status), instead of what flavor or freak is walking two paces ahead of them. This is like smooth pavement on the path to normalcy for the rest of that sub-category of skirts. I'm good with that. I consider widening that "path" to include other styles as a viable method for bringing on general acceptance.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby denimini » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 am

lazerr wrote:I got the "Bagpipes" comment just 2 weeks ago. A security guard at a shop said to me "obviously you play the bagpipes". Not sure how to respond to such a comment so I simply said "no, that is one instrument that I haven't tried".. I smiled and moved on.

Seems to be quite a common assumption. I think you gave a polite response.

I once got "Ahh, a kilt" when I was wearing a denim mini skirt (without pleats). I think it was a sincere (but un-necessary) attempt to legitimise my attire. I responded unashamably; "No, it is just a mini skirt" which caused some awkwarness in the guy. I should have been kind and agreed that it was sort of a kilt.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:40 am

Let me think about all of this … Nope, I didn't miss any vital news about Oregon getting physically detached from the rest of the US over the last few years. Let alone about NASA sending it into geostationary orbit. In fact, now that I think about it, I had pretty good confirmation through my road trip that we're still attached to the US, let alone planet Earth.

My travels last year also confirmed that people in small towns and cities in states other than Oregon treat me the same there as they do here. For the record, Arizona is inland and a bright red state and Hawaii is a coast all its own.

"Charismatic … and good at fitting in?" Probably not particularly. In junior high a guy asked me, "As an outsider, what do you think of the human race?" I'm pretty sure I've impressed a lot of people the same way since. I've got lots of folks whom I consider "friends." But not many that are close enough for them to contact me personally to invite me out to get together.

Likewise, I don't get any sense that many people regard me as anything but a hetero male. When someone says something along the lines of my being gay, I politely correct them. So as far as I can tell, people take me at face value; a guy who wears dresses and sometimes skirts. For sure, no one's ever asked if I was of Scottish heritage. Not that there's anything wrong with that nor with being gay or transgendered.

My point, don't give a second's thought to whether or not someone is trying to put you into a box that you don't belong in.

When you're out and about in your skirt or dress, just be yourself, expect and give good treatment and you'll probably receive it. When you don't get that, first, check your attitude. If it's in line, then you can be pretty sure the person who gave you static was either having a bad day or is a jerk of one variety or another. One way or another, they're outliers.

To me, this whole idea of normalization is a matter of definition. My definition is that most people seem to take me at face value, don't make an issue of it one way or the other and the ones that do make something of it, they do so in a good way. In the meantime, I've been told that people who see me take heart that they too can be their unique, genuine self. I take that as a high compliment and an indication that in the simple act of being my genuine self, I'm making the world a better place!

What more could we want?!
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby STEVIE » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:49 am

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:To me, this whole idea of normalization is a matter of definition. My definition is that most people seem to take me at face value, don't make an issue of it one way or the other and the ones that do make something of it, they do so in a good way. In the meantime, I've been told that people who see me take heart that they too can be their unique, genuine self. I take that as a high compliment and an indication that in the simple act of being my genuine self, I'm making the world a better place! What more could we want?!


Absolutely.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby moonshadow » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:45 pm

Well, sounds like you've got it all figured out man. We'll just keep on keepin on. Blessed be!
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby kingfish » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:25 pm

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
To me, this whole idea of normalization is a matter of definition. My definition is that most people seem to take me at face value, don't make an issue of it one way or the other and the ones that do make something of it, they do so in a good way. In the meantime, I've been told that people who see me take heart that they too can be their unique, genuine self. I take that as a high compliment and an indication that in the simple act of being my genuine self, I'm making the world a better place!

What more could we want?!


Spot on. It don't get better than that.

Being true to yourself above all else, is the highest of standards regarding self expression.

I definitely need to pick up a "Keep Portland Weird!" key chain.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby weeladdie18 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:10 pm

kingfish wrote:
Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
To me, this whole idea of normalization is a matter of definition. My definition is that most people seem to take me at face value, don't make an issue of it one way or the other and the ones that do make something of it, they do so in a good way. In the meantime, I've been told that people who see me take heart that they too can be their unique, genuine self. I take that as a high compliment and an indication that in the simple act of being my genuine self, I'm making the world a better place!

What more could we want?!


Being true to yourself above all else, is the highest of standards regarding self expression.

I feel we are all unique in our own style of attire . ...we will never accept any ... " normalisation " ....
so we as Men In Skirts can only use our life style to enjoy our own lives, and be thankful that we are able to use
modern technology to share our thoughts with others in this Modern World.....weeladdie
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