How many is enough to normalise us?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby dillon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:27 am

Just remember to check the file size before spending time trying to load a pic that’s too big. Paint is an easy to use way to reduce the size of a picture.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Sinned » Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:03 pm

Something that I have noticed more recently is that my family have grown just that little bit more distant. I'm not as "involved" with family activities and will, for example, go shopping without me. It's not a pronounced shunning but a lot more subtle than that. It does worry me as I find that I am also tending to accept this and spend more time on my own. I noticed it more while we were on holiday in Egypt when I would say that I was going to a certain area and the others would say that they were going somewhere else. Also I mainly wore a sarong and in little ways I was encouraged to wear shorts, nothing blatant being said, just little remarks. Oh and being praised on how good I looked in shorts. Being in a majority of 1 I was at a disadvantage. Hmmmm, it slowly erodes confidence.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby MyZen » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:20 pm

skirtyscot wrote:This post on another thread:

KellyRain wrote:
I didn't see skirts on men other than cross dressing in that same time frame. I've been here since 2000. Early on I'd see the occasional goth or visual kei guy in a skirt. But recently I am seeing them fairly frequently. Still we are talking about 1-5 or so guys in a shopping area with a 100,000 people passing through. Omotesando on a Saturday now is insane compared to years past. In addition to the locals shopping there are massive groups of Chinese tourist shoppers and a lot more international people too. Still tiny numbers of men in skirts.


got me thinking - how many skirted men will it take to make us unremarkable? "Normal" is a bit much to ask for, but it would be nice if we could get to the point where a passing stranger would think nothing of seeing one of us. For example, here in Scotland a kilt is a non-event. You don't see a kilt every day or even every week. But kilties don't turn heads or get funny looks. How many of us have to be out there so that the betrousered masses notice but it hardly registers with them because we're normal enough? So that two people out shopping together would hardly even comment to each other on seeing us?


In my opinion:

Availability of the garment.

For it to be normal the average person needs to have it as an option when they go to buy clothing. This means in the United STates it need to be hanging right next to the shorts and pants in the men's section at walmart and target for less than $20 for the bargain choice and less than $30 for the "good brand". Skirts that fit being in the women's section is a non-starter. Cross dressing is fine, but it's not the default. The skirt needs to be presented as a cis-gender male option that you can pickup as an impulse purchase.

I paid $75 for a skirt and have several kilts at $50 and $60, but those were purchased online and are not accessible to the average clothing budget.

1 in 100 will be "visible"
1 in 10 will be "normal"

That said, I wear kilts and skirts to work, and school, and as weekend apparel. People have asked me directly why I wear them and have complimented me on my outfits. I've overheard women explaining to their boyfriends why skirts are more comfortable than pants. If you want it to be normal, you have to wear it like it already is normal.
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Response to MyZen

Postby Grok » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:33 pm

There has been a chicken or egg dilemma. Without mass production the price tag will be high...but will there be enough interest to make mass production viable?

Given the prices mentioned, I think that sarongs might be the only possible option in the present.
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Re: Response to MyZen

Postby beachlion » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:59 pm

Grok wrote:There has been a chicken or egg dilemma. Without mass production the price tag will be high...but will there be enough interest to make mass production viable?

Given the prices mentioned, I think that sarongs might be the only possible option in the present.


I don't think chickens and eggs have anything to do with the problem. It is a slow growth to get the average man interested in skirts and maybe more feminin accessories.

I suppose when women started to wear pants they were not readily available in the main department stores like Sears and Macy's. It is in my opinion a slow growing market. We have as men a better position than the women a century ago. We have the Internet to order from. The women had to make their own pants or use a seamstress. But first we need to get rid of any taboos in this field. And we from Skirtcafe are the heralds of the message that men can wear skirts without being tarred and feathered, at least in most of the world ;).
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby Grok » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:48 pm

Accessories may evolve seperately from skirts. Mens jewelry, for example, may be worn with trousers.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby crfriend » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:11 pm

MyZen wrote:In my opinion:

Availability of the garment.

That's certainly one angle on the matter, but we also have evolution and sociology working against the idea. Men are fairly well evolved to be creatures of habit that settle into ruts that work well for them and they tend not to change unless something forces them to or they get very curious about something. Men also tend to be very outcome-focused; note that women "shop"; guys tend to approach "shopping" as a military exercise where the mission is to get in, achieve the objective, and get out. The "rut" and "mission focus" keep us from noticing alternatives to what we've always done. Those facets need to change as well -- and that's a very tall order indeed!

"Dammit, I need pants. So it's off to the Wal-mart, mount a surgical strike on the menswear department, one pair of Dockers or Levis, and out!" Afterwards, in the car on the way home, "Wait a minute... Did I actually see a skirt on that rack in the men's department?" However, by that time it's too late. The exceptionally perceptive would also think, "But I don't have any shoes that'd go with it. Maybe next time." Of course, "next time" never arrives because it's been forgotten.
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Re: How many is enough to normalise us?

Postby beachlion » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:03 pm

crfriend wrote:.... "Dammit, I need pants. So it's off to the Wal-mart, mount a surgical strike on the menswear department, one pair of Dockers or Levis, and out!" ......


That is the way I shopped in my 20s and 30s. Later I noticed differences between shops quality-wise. And I also got a very slight sense of style so I checked all the pants, jackets and suites. But it still was very different from the shopping style of my then partner. The one time we shopped for my clothes, I ended up with clothes I would not have choosen myself and the bill was 4 times higher than my average on the same amount of clothes.

I think men would be shopping differently if they were not brainwashed from the cradle on to act like men.

I feel I'm still partly under that cloud as I would not buy stuff in ladies departments and certainly not try it on. My boldest action up till now was buying skirts in the thrift shop of the Salvation Army. ;)
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