Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Sinned » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:38 pm

Working in a store that sells home wear we get a lot of women through the doors. A couple of years back I did actually count how many women wore dresses and skirts that I could see. Admittedly it was late in the year and far from warm but I do remember that the percentage was low. I reported my results and it's hidden there in a thread somewhere. Alas we are a bit too busy for me to do a survey at the moment but I may give it another try if things quieten down.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Happy-N-Skirts » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:41 pm

My wife is wearing a camo skirt today that matches one of mine. We have a few matching skirts. One of them is a Purple Rain Adventure Skirt. We wear them when traveling or on a weekend get away. I wore skirts on the most recent one and will again next weekend. We don't like traveling on holiday weekends, so we are going next week. We are celebrating her birthday and our anniversary, which are close together.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby crfriend » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:25 pm

Stu wrote:[...] (I won't count medical scrubs as they are not a free choice). [...]

Around here it is. I'd hazard a guess that a good 60 - 70% of scrubs sold never get near a medical facility unless worn by a patient.

They're dirt cheap in many places, and you can beat the daylights out of them in the laundry without a care in the world -- quite unlike the stuff I tend to wear where I really have to pay attention to the care labels. In those regards, I can see the surface allure.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby crfriend » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:38 pm

FranTastic444 wrote:I wasn't aware of the original naming convention of the T lines / stops - interesting. The names remind me of Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere.

The whole area around Downtown Crossing and Park St is a mess. Marty really needs to get to grips with the homeless situation.

To the first point, Boston's transit system is one of the oldest ones in the country [0] and so quite naturally has a deep history to it. Several of the oldest "T" stations are on the National Register of Historic Places, Boylston and Park Street both I believe are so. The system of today is both truncated and expanded from its heyday. Expansions include the Cambridge Red Line extension from Harvard to Alewife and the Braintree extension, also of the Red line, both done in my lifetime. Truncations include the dropping of the Watertown trolley line (the original Green Line "A" branch) and the truncation of the original Arborway branch to its current terminus at Heath Street. The work at "Government Center" destroyed three stations to create one; "Government Center" was created from the destruction of the original Scollay, Friend St. and Court St. stations and some line re-routing. The original Washington Street route of the Orange Line is now largely gone save for the core tunnel, and where the original routing served North Station (still there) on elevated platforms outside the old Boston Garden (not to be confused with the Public Gardens). The modern Orange Line shares the "Southwest Corridor" which also sports Amtrak's Northeast Corridor intercity trains, albeit on different tracks.

To your second point, that's going to take more work than Marty can muster. Fixing that will take repairing the nation's economy which there is no political interest in doing at the national level. So, no amount of local effort is going to help. As long as work at a living wage is out of reach of a large portion of the populace the problem won't budge.

[0] New York City may edge Boston, but Boston was the first to put the trolley lines underground to free up street space and make the trains work better.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Stu » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:12 am

crfriend wrote:
Stu wrote:[...] (I won't count medical scrubs as they are not a free choice). [...]

Around here it is. I'd hazard a guess that a good 60 - 70% of scrubs sold never get near a medical facility unless worn by a patient.

They're dirt cheap in many places, and you can beat the daylights out of them in the laundry without a care in the world -- quite unlike the stuff I tend to wear where I really have to pay attention to the care labels. In those regards, I can see the surface allure.


Well I've never seen that before - no idea that was happening.

You live and learn. :D
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby FranTastic444 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:26 pm

crfriend wrote:To your second point, that's going to take more work than Marty can muster. Fixing that will take repairing the nation's economy which there is no political interest in doing at the national level. So, no amount of local effort is going to help. As long as work at a living wage is out of reach of a large portion of the populace the problem won't budge.


Just as we moved to Boston they closed the Long Island bridge. I remember back then that there were predictions that it would cause problems. I agree that homelessness is a national issue that no one man can solve, but getting the shelter back in action would surely help those in need in Boston.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby FranTastic444 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:31 pm

Medical scrubs are much in evidence on the red line as one of the stops is MGH (Mass General Hospital). I'd never heard of people using them for everyday wear, but it makes sense. I'm surprised that those who work in the medical industry are allowed to wear the clothes to work that they will use on the ward. I'd have thought that they would need to change when they got to work so as to keep their clothes as fresh and hygienic as possible.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Fred in Skirts » Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:33 pm

FranTastic444 wrote:Medical scrubs are much in evidence on the red line as one of the stops is MGH (Mass General Hospital). I'd never heard of people using them for everyday wear, but it makes sense. I'm surprised that those who work in the medical industry are allowed to wear the clothes to work that they will use on the ward. I'd have thought that they would need to change when they got to work so as to keep their clothes as fresh and hygienic as possible.

Hospitals are one of the most germ infested places on earth. If you are not sick when you go in you will be when you leave. They are not clean at all.. :(
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:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Sinned » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:57 pm

Our wards used to be policed ( and I use that word deliberately ) by a Matron. Even the Doctors feared their wrath. Think Hattie Jacques in the Carry On films. Their word was law and they were in TOTAL charge of all aspects of the ward, including cleanliness. And it worked. Sadly under successive governments the Matron was discontinued to be replaced by Ward Sisters and the cleaning services contracted out. With a lack of accountablility inevitably there has been a decline in cleanliness standards and a rise in infections in the hospitals.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby weeladdie18 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:44 pm

As far as I can see from my Fashion Research...Medieval man wore tunics and stitched cloth tights before adopting his horse riding costume...............
Before the 1930 's young boys still wore dresses like their big sisters.....at 5 years old the boy was breached and wore trousers or shorts for school and work and war.
In Scotland and some warmer Climates the Male still wears his skirts and robes or tunics as part of their national dress.

The trousers or shorts is a cult style of attire which we as "Men in Skirts " are trying to address. It does seem that Mother addressed the style of clothes her son wore.
This whole style of clothing was worn by the Male throughout his manhood.
Our " Sightings in the wild " will never give a true picture of what is going on in our individual region............................................
.I am quite sure no one has reported my skirt wearing activities to the skirt cafe as a sighting in the wild.................weeladdie
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Gusto10 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:35 am

crfriend wrote:
mishawakaskirt wrote:A few ponderings. Why is it that the European and Western male let women take over the skirt? Why would anybody give up the comfort of the skirt?

The ultimate answer is multi-faceted and may never be properly untangled. However, there are several likely primary drivers. One was the rise of the horse for transportation, and it was usually men who rode, duo-tubes made it easier. There was also the factor of the French Revolution where the opulence of the male dress of the nobility was popularly rejected by the masses leading to a massive "dumbing-down" of male fashion and style. There's also the Industrial Revolution, the early parts thereof frequently involved exposed high-speed machinery which could catch things that were long and/or flowing and would provide a profound safety issue. Finally, we have the ascendency of the culture of machismo in the 20th Century which repudiates anything even remotely associated with femininity, which, but this time, the skirt had achieved; this was likely the final nail in the coffin.

Was the "decision" for men to abandon single-tube garments a "failure"? I'm not sure I'm willing to label it such. It may have been a manifestation of all the factors above, or perhaps a subset of possibly a superset with points I've missed added. However, that said, it's nice to see that a small set of "early-adopters" has taken up the mantle and is marching forward with the flag.
In the States the kilt is still attached to the stigma that it's a skirt.

This is primarily the province of the very ignorant and the very insecure. An all-up kilt rig has pretty much universal recognition even in the more backwards parts of the USA thanks to mass media and the Internet. Outright skirts don't enjoy that yet, but hopefully that time will come.


In addition to the agruments presented above, one should bear in mind the influence of psychiatrists like Binet and Jung who - with the aid of the church referring to the well know and much discussed Deutri- paragraphs in the big book, were the first to stigmatize wearing clothes of the other gender as deviant behaviour. Untill recent, that has been the dogma with psychologists and psychiatrists. Furthermore the attitude of mostly women on the subject. When you read the comments in newspapers and magazines on the subject, whenever the issue is brought up, many women will write that they like but not for their partner, eventhough they might be wearing at that very moment his shirt and/or socks.
If I'm not mistaken, the first skirts for women were introduced during the 1830 Paris fashion show. It was picked up quickly like trousers after the 1958 Paris Fashion show shown by YSL. Before the last mentioned fashion show, trousers were worn either by pre-era women's libbers (suffragettes) and during WWII by women taking the place of men in factories. Most probably due to the last, everybody was so used to seeing women in trousers and understanding the need thereof, that it was easily accepted. Which brings me back to what is written before, if you want skirts for men to become mainstream, which might take the fun away for some of the forum participants, the "men-skirt" should become more common, either due to celabrities wearing kilts (wrap and non wrap around) or ordinary people brave enough to not let themselves be put of by having their picture with others of the "people of walmart fashion show" with negative comments.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby weeladdie18 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:14 pm

I would take this " men in trousers " back to probably the Medieval Period when men wore short tunics and hand stitched close fitting stockings for
horse riding .This garment became Tights and then Military Style trousers....as subsequently worn for work and war.
The fashionable garment became the permenant wear for men. More practical than the long male robe
I would say that my full summers skirts are not practical or safe to wear ...... " in the male working world of physical tasks. "................
.......engineering with machinery,........Building construction........Military active service.... ..............weeladdie
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby weeladdie18 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:49 pm

In the Peninsular War soldiers wives followed the troops and acted as nurses and catering staff. ....In the cold winter the wives wore their
husbands spare long trousers under their long skirts as protection against the winter weather......
I remember when I was a boy there was a Polish Couple who worked on a farm. In the winter the lady wore her husbands trousers under her skirts.
I can remember when my mother bought her first pair of " slacks " to wear on her motor cycle....One of the ladies rode her Velocette L. E.
whist wearing her working skirt and overall for her cleaning job at one of the big houses.....All the ex land girls wore jodhpurs working on the farms.
There was a time when none of the school girls wore trousers or tights.....there was no money to buy these sort of clothes
I remember my mothers saying that before the War , she was reprimanded by her boss on a Monday morning for wearing her shorts on her bicycle on a sunday afternoon.....
A lady who was an Army Transport Driver during the war ...always wore her trousers when working and driving for the local garage..........
This whole " men in skirts " has very complicated history....
my notes in this post are only a small part of the total history of the female in her trousers............weeladdie
Last edited by weeladdie18 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby pelmut » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:52 pm

weeladdie18 wrote:...I would say that my full summers skirts are not practical or safe to wear ...... " in the male working world of physical tasks. "................
.......engineering with machinery...

It depends on the machinery.  I quite happily use my Harrison lathe wearing any kind of skirt but my old Southbend had the motor belts where there was a risk of them catching the hem of a knee-length skirt, so I always had to wear long skirts when operating it.  Actually, long skirts are better than trousers for lathe work because they keep the swarf out of your shoes.
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Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby weeladdie18 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:41 am

I would like to thank Pelmut for his comments on my post.....In the engineering manufacturing world in the U.K. during my working life
there was a constant upgrading of the safety of the machines
and the personal protective equipment which must be worn by employees for specific engineering tasks.....
If the machine was not up to standard it was not allowed to be used . If the operator was not suitably trained and dressed , he, or she ,
was not allowed to operate the machine.....
In modern times the employers give the risk assessment of the machining operation serious consideration.

When I first worked in an aircraft factory nearly 20 years after the end of WW11 there were still female capstan operators who had operated machines
during the war on the production lines. These lassies wore protective dust coats over their skirts and hats to protect their hair from being
caught by the machines.

All the overhead shafting and pulley systems had been disabled and the machines were heavily guarded . ......I am also talking about large machines...
...used for machining twenty foot long rotor spars ....and the type of machine which could completely machine a railway wagon wheel casting
in less than 15 minutes. ......I have operated an American War Loan Warner and Swasey turret lathe .

There was a youngish lady working in the Machine shop inspection Department who had jet black curly hair , wore beautiful summer skirts
with black stockings and smoked like a trooper.....................................That age is gone now.....Memories of a mispent youth

Twelve years ago female industrial engineering labour wore trousers and coverall boilersuits on issue with the job.
The modern Naval Wrens who are trades personnel wear trousers off duty as part of their uniform just like their male counterparts.
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