Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby mishawakaskirt » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:42 pm

A few ponderings. Why is it that the European and Western male let women take over the skirt? Why would anybody give up the comfort of the skirt? Why didn't someone say men wear the solid colors, women wear the pastels and prints. Why the outright abandoning of the skirt? Why didn't someone draw the line somewhere, even if it were just at denim? Why did we let them take everything? A online search of skirts yields 1000s of different skirt type, colors, materials. Just one online store's collection had over 250 skirts in it.
Who, when and why did we make this failure of a decision?

In the States the kilt is still attached to the stigma that it's a skirt. I have offered loaning a kilt out to some of my friends with no one wanting to try one yet.
Mishawakaskirt @2wayskirt on Twitter

Avoid the middle man, wear a kilt or skirt.
User avatar
mishawakaskirt
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Mishawaka, INDIANA USA

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby bridkid » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:33 pm

Dunno really, maybe it's just an anomaly of history. Maybe skirts weren't practical for manual work, maybe the climate of northern Europe made trousers more comfortable in winter. Perhaps skirts are seen as feminine, and you know how most blokes jealously protect their masculinity. Who knows?

But, we are in the vanguard for claiming the skirt back!
If it aint Yorkshire, it's crap!
bridkid
Active Member
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:42 pm
Location: whitby north yorks

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby crfriend » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:12 pm

mishawakaskirt wrote:A few ponderings. Why is it that the European and Western male let women take over the skirt? Why would anybody give up the comfort of the skirt?

The ultimate answer is multi-faceted and may never be properly untangled. However, there are several likely primary drivers. One was the rise of the horse for transportation, and it was usually men who rode, duo-tubes made it easier. There was also the factor of the French Revolution where the opulence of the male dress of the nobility was popularly rejected by the masses leading to a massive "dumbing-down" of male fashion and style. There's also the Industrial Revolution, the early parts thereof frequently involved exposed high-speed machinery which could catch things that were long and/or flowing and would provide a profound safety issue. Finally, we have the ascendency of the culture of machismo in the 20th Century which repudiates anything even remotely associated with femininity, which, but this time, the skirt had achieved; this was likely the final nail in the coffin.

Was the "decision" for men to abandon single-tube garments a "failure"? I'm not sure I'm willing to label it such. It may have been a manifestation of all the factors above, or perhaps a subset of possibly a superset with points I've missed added. However, that said, it's nice to see that a small set of "early-adopters" has taken up the mantle and is marching forward with the flag.
In the States the kilt is still attached to the stigma that it's a skirt.

This is primarily the province of the very ignorant and the very insecure. An all-up kilt rig has pretty much universal recognition even in the more backwards parts of the USA thanks to mass media and the Internet. Outright skirts don't enjoy that yet, but hopefully that time will come.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 10232
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby FranTastic444 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:49 am

Haven't skirts / dresses for everyday use been largely abandoned by a good percentage of the female populace as well?

My wife hasn't worn skirts for many years (other than 'posh frocks' for weddings / Christmas parties) - she prefers jeans and trousers. I've asked her why this is - she tells me that a large part of avoiding skirts is to do with modesty (she is paranoid about giving people a flash). Being of Irish / Scottish stock and porcelain-skinned she also feels the need to wear tights with a skirt - and she finds wearing tights uncomfortable and impractical for all-day use.

The recent hot weather (36c today) seems to have persuaded more women than normal to wear skirts or dresses to work. Out of high summer, skirt usage seems to drop significantly. Weekends / out of work, women seem to go for shorts over a skirt in hot weather.
FranTastic444
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:47 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Caultron » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:40 am

mishawakaskirt wrote:...Why is it that the European and Western male let women take over the skirt?...

In fashion, as so often elsewhere, there's no accounting for taste.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

caultron
User avatar
Caultron
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 4122
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:12 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Stu » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:54 am

FranTastic444 wrote:Haven't skirts / dresses for everyday use been largely abandoned by a good percentage of the female populace as well?...
The recent hot weather (36c today) seems to have persuaded more women than normal to wear skirts or dresses to work. Out of high summer, skirt usage seems to drop significantly. Weekends / out of work, women seem to go for shorts over a skirt in hot weather.


I am a Brit who lives in Sweden, but I was in Boston MA in June (wonderful city, BTW!!) and I was struck by how many women and girls were wearing skirts and dresses, so I was rather surprised by your first sentence. The weather was warm, so I guess that encouraged it while I was there. I imagine the numbers will drop once the autumn (Fall) sets in. Of course, a skirt with thick tights is probably as warm as trousers, so it really can be worn all times of year.
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby crfriend » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:14 am

Stu wrote:I am a Brit who lives in Sweden, but I was in Boston MA in June (wonderful city, BTW!!) and I was struck by how many women and girls were wearing skirts and dresses, so I was rather surprised by your first sentence. The weather was warm, so I guess that encouraged it while I was there. I imagine the numbers will drop once the autumn (Fall) sets in. Of course, a skirt with thick tights is probably as warm as trousers, so it really can be worn all times of year.

Boston is the major metropolitan area in New England and sets a bit of a standard for things, and, yes, the number of women wearing skirts and dresses has been slightly higher than normal in the warm (blasted hot, actually) weather. Once one gets out into the suburbs, things get pretty dire quite quickly and one can go for days without seeing even a skirt much less a dress. It'll either be a tunic top and leggings (spit!) or, worse, jeans. Shorts occasionally show up, but it's mostly a vast wasteland.

The times I get into Boston are usually a bit of a visual feast for me as I live out in the hinterlands and aside from my landlady (who lives in skirts and dresses) anything other than jeans/leggings are few and far between.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 10232
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Grok » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:30 pm

I see this surge in skirts/dresses only during the hottest days of summer. I suspect that the thresh hold is when women feel hot while wearing shorts.
Last edited by Grok on Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Grok
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 1668
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:21 am

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby moonshadow » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:53 pm

crfriend wrote:Finally, we have the ascendency of the culture of machismo in the 20th Century which repudiates anything even remotely associated with femininity, which, but this time, the skirt had achieved; this was likely the final nail in the coffin.


Indeed, I wouldn't be at all surprised if, by the time I'm an old man skirt wearing women are also "socially prohibited" in wearing skirts!

There's no balance anymore, thus civilization is falling apart. And I don't mean balance as in women are 100% feminine and men 100% masculine, I'm talking about balance within one's own heart and soul.

Really I don't think clothing should even enter the equation. I've seen women dressing in very manly clothes behave in a very feminine manner. I cant understand why men cant wear traditionally "feminine" articles and still exhibit masculine characteristics.

Moreover it seems femininity is the most versatile of gender roles. There is literally nothing you cant do under the umbrella. Womanhood has claimed everything that that men once held sacred. This path however appears to run only one way. Masculinity on the other hand is a very narrow field. It seems the only thing you're allowed to do is sit down, shut up, and take it. And as a result we have a generation of aimless, lost, and out of control young men who are literally bouncing off the walls.

As a side note it's almost comical reading biblical blogs come up with all sorts of reasons "its completely acceptable for women to wear pants".... but now for men wearing skirts on the other hand.... not so fast....

Pffft.....
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness."
-Alejandro Jodorowsky
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 3990
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Lebanon, Virginia

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby steamman » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:45 pm

"Moreover it seems femininity is the most versatile of gender roles. There is literally nothing you cant do under the umbrella."

This is completely true, and I suspected this for years before discovering this forum. There is absolutely no limit to what a woman can choose to wear, and nobody would ever dream of challenging it (rightly so). However, men now need to make a strong assertion that they have exactly the same rights as women in this respect as there is no law that says that a man cannot wear what he likes.

"Womanhood has claimed everything that that men once held sacred."

Indeed. For example, I would observe that Ugg boots were originally invented for men, and subsequently when women discovered them and started wearing them, they appeared to become "feminised". If you now choose to wear them as a man today, you will often get a funny look.

"This path however appears to run only one way."

Men have to collectively assert their rights to stop the rot and wearing skirts is a very strong message in this respect. I believe that society is now slowly starting to change, but it will take a very long time. Which is a shame, because I think for the mental health of many men out there, they need to know and have confidence that they have the freedom to express themselves as they wish just as women do every single day. What astonished me when I started to wear skirts in public was how indifferent people are. It was actually all in my head. But it gives some satisfaction to know that if I am out and about wearing a skirt, and another man sees this and realises he can do it as well, that is a good thing.
steamman
Member
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:58 pm

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby moonshadow » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:22 am

steamman wrote:I believe that society is now slowly starting to change, but it will take a very long time.


I think it might happen in the age of Capricorn. Tis looking like Aquarius might not the "age of enlightenment" it was once touted to be....

I can't wait on society, I'll be long dead before they figure anything out. And so, I make my stand here and now.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness."
-Alejandro Jodorowsky
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 3990
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Lebanon, Virginia

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby FranTastic444 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:57 pm

Stu wrote:I am a Brit who lives in Sweden, but I was in Boston MA in June (wonderful city, BTW!!)


Stu - I replied, somewhat belatedly, to your Boston thread from the start of the year (in my defence, I wasn't a forum member back then). Although the info won't be of any use to you (unless you visit again) it will be there in the archive should anyone decide to search the content or resurrect the thread :-)

Over the last couple of days I did a fairly unscientific poll of female clothing types on my route on the Dread line from Snailwife to Downtown Abbey. I was in early and out early and today was the start of a holiday weekend so the number of commuters was lower than my normal commute - making counting pretty easy.

Jeans 3. 7. 6. 3. = 19
Leggings 4. 2. 6. 1. = 13
Dress 1. 1. 3. 4. = 9
Skirt 2. 1. 1. 2. = 6
Medi scrubs 1. 0. 2. 2. = 5
Trousers 1. 0. 0. 2. = 3
Shorts 0. 2. 0. 0. = 2

So, from this small sample it would appear that jeans and leggings are by far the most common clothing of choice for the female Bostonian. I'd expect shorts to be much more common on a weekend.

Getting back to Stu's point (struck by how many women and girls were wearing skirts and dresses) I was thinking back to my time working in the City of London (mainly round by Bank) and I seem to remember that pretty much all the female staff were wearing skirts.
FranTastic444
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:47 am
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby crfriend » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:55 am

FranTastic444 wrote:[...] my route on the Dread line from Snailwife to Downtown Abbey.

Snicker. I always enjoy hearing new derogatory twists on "T" terminology as the system is just so inanely bad that the only thing one can do is laugh at it. (This is a system where public transit is an unforeseen outcome of political patronage.)

"Snailwife" [0] I got almost instantly, but it took a while to figure out that "Downtown Abbey" [1] was actually "Washington Street Under".

Back before Boston colour-coded its transit lines, stations were named for places where they we adjacent to, and for their relative positions to one another. Hence, we had the Tremont Street Subway [2] occupying "Park Street", because it was at the intersection of Tremont and Park Streets) and the Cambridge/Dorchester Railway [2] occupying "Park Street Under". We also had another one at Scollay Square (now roughly "Government Center") where the northern end of the Tremont Street Subway occupied "Scollay Square" and the East Boston Railway [2] occupied "Scollay Under". In the vicinity of the South Station Terminal [3] (heavy surface-running inter-city railways) we had "South Station Under" for the Cambridge/Dorchester line and "South Station Over" for a section of elevated railway that came down in the early 1940s. I miss the old names, and strive to use them at every opportunity so they're not forgotten.
So, from this small sample it would appear that jeans and leggings are by far the most common clothing of choice for the female Bostonian. I'd expect shorts to be much more common on a weekend.

I've not done any counting in Boston recently. I see no reason to artificially depress myself with how things are getting dumbed down.

[0] Proper name, "Alewife" so named for the nearby "Alewife Brook" and the eponymous parkway nearby.
[1] Proper name, "Downtown Crossing", named for the failed shopping/gathering area immediately above. The intersection of Summer Street and Washington Street was once a vibrant area with two massive competing department stores (Jordan Marsh and Filenes, both now defunct) opposite each other on Summer Street. What was Jordan Marsh is now a Macy's and the rest of the plaza is rather decrepit.
[2] Historical name.
[3] Still extant.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
 
Posts: 10232
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby Stu » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:26 pm

Frantastic

So you saw 15 in skirts/dresses in total and 36 in trousers/jeans/shorts (I won't count medical scrubs as they are not a free choice). That's about 40% - which is not bad. I would say that here in Sweden it's probably more like 10-20% for most of the year.

I hope I will return to Boston one day. I really loved Boston and I bet you are proud to live in such a beautiful and friendly city. (BTW: Atlantic Fish Restaurant on Boylston Street for the best fish supper on the planet!!)

Stu
Stu
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:25 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Why did we let women entirely take over the skirt?

Postby FranTastic444 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:09 pm

Carl - I have a habit of coming up with alternative names for things - inherited from my parents at a very early age. To this day the washing machine is known as the kilobosh (from my very formative years when I was first learning to speak). When referring to something where we could not remember the proper name, it was often generalised as the 'doobry firkin' or just 'doobry' or sometimes as the 'hurdy-gurdy' (even when we weren't trying to describe a drone instrument from the middle ages).

I wasn't aware of the original naming convention of the T lines / stops - interesting. The names remind me of Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere.

The whole area around Downtown Crossing and Park St is a mess. Marty really needs to get to grips with the homeless situation.

Stu - I'll add the restaurant to the list of places to visit. Though I'm not a huge fish fan, my wife loves that sort of stuff. We are going to be in town to celebrate the unofficial end of summer (Labor day weekend) later today, but we will be out in the seaport district trying to get into the swanky rooftop bars and patios that have sprung up in that part of town. Yep, Boston is a great place. Wish I'd been in a position to move out here when I was a bit younger.

I guess that 40% skirted is a good percentage in this day and age - it is very season dependent though. Their is a brief autumnal period where you get an abundance of my favourite dress style (boots, skirt and tights) but as soon as the white stuff threatens it tends to be jeans or ski kit all the way.
FranTastic444
Member Extraordinaire
 
Posts: 304
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:47 am
Location: Boston, MA

Next

Return to Skirts and Kilts for Men

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Freefrom and 2 guests