General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Post by oldsalt1 »

Question for the members of the café.

Every day we have a series of shall we say conflicts with the people around us. It could be as simple as trying to return something to negotiating the price of a car or even a house. .

Lets leave work and job out of this , In the times where it is on a face to face basis and we are all dressed neatly. Do you feel what you are wearing can put at an advantage or disadvantage.
I'll throw out an instance.

Today I had to go to the IRS It was just a minor item so no conflict was involved. But say we were arguing about a tax issue. I was neatly and conservatively dressed , Do you think my wearing a skirt would have an effect on the negotiations

Or I am buying a car I walk into the dealership skirted should I look for a male or female sales person

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Post by andrewsh »

I’d say it depends. Where I live I am sometimes getting into arguments with strangers over their incorrect parking (it’s unfortunately common to block pedestrian or cyclist ways here). Sometimes the offenders defend themselves in not always appropriate ways. Since I dyed my hair blue even without wearing a skirt some of them started to use that as an ‘argument’ when they ran out of arguments (e.g. ‘hey, you freak, what do you want from me, better sort the mess you’ve got with your hair’). I started wearing skirts quite recently, so I didn’t notice any increase in frequency of such attacks yet, but I imagine it’s even easier for them to use that than say something about my hair :)

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Post by Wonderful Electric »

That’s a very good question! I hate to admit it but I would dress traditionally for things that I would have to fight for, or anywhere my physical safety was in question. Even women would have a hard time with this though that may be an issue not entirely with the way they are dressing but rather the way society treats women badly (which is unfortunate). There are enough weekends and personal events where I can be myself and dress as I please.

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Post by crfriend »

I'd say it's a matter of circumstance. If you hold the cards -- as you are if you're "negotiating" over a new car (the dealership will make its nut on the deal, the question is how much of an overage is involved -- what you're wearing likely wouldn't make any difference if you're a good negotiator. I've got some formal training in negotiating under my belt, so I know when to engage and when to walk away, and I tend not to haggle over the prices of things -- either they're acceptable to me or they're not, and I understand that folks need to make a living.

In situations where there is active threat involved (e.g. dealing with the government) things change drastically. In that event, it's best to project as much confidence and power (what little you have, in the case of the government) as is possible, so "dressing the part" is likely a good idea.

In other words, "it depends". Confidence and coolness under pressure are important qualities, but sometimes even those aren't quite enough.
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Post by hairy »

Putting skirting aside it really does make a big difference in what people wear and the way people are treated. I know If I walk into a shop in baggy t shirt and jeans exactly how I'll be treated, the same goes for important appointments. When I had hospital app and I turned up in jeans my treatment was very poor. Turn up in expensive coat, trousers and nice ring with my £1000 watch on at treatment is like, yes sir, no sir, whatever you ask sir. If you want to be treated seriously you have to dress seriously, walk tall and with confidence. Sorry to say I would not be treated so well when skirted.

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Post by skirtyscot »

It's about confidence and whether your attire will be used for some ad hominem to deflect away from the point at issue. In situations like complaining about poor service or faulty goods, at first I lacked the confidence to challenge the person if I was in a skirt. But gradually I got over that, and now it doesn't stop me. And guess what? It turns out that nobody has ever mentioned my skirt in such circumstances. Plenty of funny looks, no doubt about that, but never a mention of it, let alone using it to question my judgment or ability.
Keep on skirting,


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Post by rivegauche »

There is no question that what you wear governs how you are perceived. The quality of your clothes is almost certainly more important than the perceived gender of your clothes. Wearing a very smart skirt suit really will give you more clout in a meeting than if you turn up in a shell suit or tracksuit bottoms and a T-shirt. There is one exception - where you are right and they are wrong. If you corner people in a difference of opinion and you are wearing skirt they will openly speculate on the colour of your panties rather than be seen to be in the wrong. That is when you owe it to your colleagues NOT to wear skirt for the meeting.

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Post by moonshadow »

Good discussion...

I can't imagine why I'd ever have to deal with the IRS face to face, considering there isn't an office anywhere near here, as well as the fact that I don't really make enough to itemize, thus my chances for audit are slim to none.

As for your situation, I have a follow up question, you mentioned "leaving work out of this", but you are an accountant. So my question is, is the IRS meeting for you yourself, or for a tax client (work related)? If it was just for you, I'd say it would depend on the issue I suppose. I guess if I felt like I had to face down the IRS on a serious matter and I felt as though I could come out alive and well, I'd probably just dress normally. If I were pretty sure I'm going to lose my ass regardless, I'd just wear what I want... why not after all?
oldsalt wrote:Do you think my wearing a skirt would have an effect on the negotiations
Ethically it shouldn't. The IRS is supposed to be impartial, and non-prejudiced, just like dealing with any other government authority. Of course, this is a "perfect world" scenario, and I suppose having a perfect world with an IRS in it, is somewhat of a catch 22. :mrgreen:

Okay... real life MoonShadow example:

As many of you know, I've been fighting to get my septic system replaced ever since early May. Which, BTW, ground FINALLY broke on the new system yesterday, but thanks to the weather, it's still slow going.

So, septic contractors are known to be somewhat of the "rough neck" type, especially around here. There are two things to consider here. Conventional septic installers are plentiful. There are about ten in each postal code (town). However alternative septic installers are few and far between. I found three within a hundred mile radius. Since my lot is small, and sitting on solid limestone with only about a foot of usable soil the Health Department mandated an alternative system for me. (yay....)

This isn't your typical "consumer" situation, like a car dealership, whereas if the salesman treats me like garbage, I can just go to his competitor across the street. This isn't like buying a combo meal at the local fast food eatery.

This MUST be repaired or I lose my house... period. And by lose, I mean foreclosure, credit ruined, starting all over, renting, re-homing our cats, etc, etc Like the my IRS example above, the Health Department has the power to make my life a living hell. So far they've been cool, and have been working with me. I've dealt with them, an engineer, and of course the installer.

This has been the most difficult business deal I've ever had to put together, and it ain't over yet. The permitting, red tape, bureaucracy, time tables, back logs, etc, has been unbelievable. It has been frustrating, tedious, slow going, EXPENSIVE, nerve racking, and with each passing night, we went to bed wondering if the next day would render the news that we'd either be homeless, or okay. The job MUST be done correctly. I don't believe I have enough property, nor funding to do this again in the foreseeable future. I need these people to take me seriously. - Thus: No time for a skirt!

I enjoy my skirts and dresses on my time off, but this is business. As I've mentioned in another thread, I separate my skirts vs normal apparel as "pleasure or business". If it's pleasure, I'll wear what I want, if it's business, I wear what seems appropriate for the business at hand.

If the day ever comes where rough neck Appalachian septic installers are showing up to dig trenches in a knee length skirt, or hell, even a utilikilt then I'd lighten up a little. But until such day arrives, I'm afraid sometimes you just have to put the toys away and handle the situation.

Short examples:

Business I'd conduct IN a skirt:
  • Car shopping at dealerships
  • House hunting (I actually already did this in a skirt)
  • Dealing with contractors for non-critical projects (remodeling, window replacement, trades where there is high competition, little to no government involvement)
  • General shopping (groceries, housewares, hardware, etc)
  • Dealing with major utilities, (Appalachian power, Russell County PSA, Verizon, etc)
  • DMV
  • Bank business (in fact I applied for the loan for my septic work in a skirt! :mrgreen:
  • Dealing with salesman (I believe it gives me the upper hand)
  • Meeting a representative (congress, delegate, president, governor, etc... they work for US after all!)
  • Town council meetings as a casual observer.
  • Dealing with the police
  • Doctor/dentist visits
Business that I'd NOT conduct in a skirt:
  • Car shopping (for sale by owner)
  • When I have to travel far to buy something off craigslist, like that time I traveled almost two hours to buy a bed for Amber, the reason is I don't want to take a chance in being sent away because I offended someone
  • Job hunting/interviews
  • Dealing with contractors that are of a critical nature (septic installs, lots of red tape, major projects, trades with little competition and of high importance)
  • In any matter where I may have to appear in court, or with lawyers.
  • Town council meetings where I'm trying to get something important done, like a zoning exception, or I need something from them.
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Post by bridkid »

I don't think I would wear a skirt for a formal occasion, say job interview or a wedding. But most other instances (apart from work) if the weather is ok, I'll be skirted. For instance at a family dinner last weekend I wore a distressed denim mini, (I call it my 'posh' skirt) and everything was fine..

However I can understand the need for 'normal' clothes, I'm away on a night out in my hometown next weekend, and there's no way I will be skirted, I envisage unpleasant behaviour from drunks.
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Post by oldsalt1 »

I think that it takes " a pair ' to wear a skirt. and there are times when you just can't do it. I have places and events that I won't wear a skirt to, even though some of the participants already are aware that I wear skirts.

Its funny after some of these events the feeling is"I could of" and "I should have "

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Post by denimini »

If you get to the point where you are comfortable about wearing a skirt anywhere, then you don't feel you have to prove a point to anyone and can allow yourself to be strategic about when not to wear a skirt.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia

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Post by Freedomforall »

oldsalt1 wrote:I think that it takes " a pair ' to wear a skirt. and there are times when you just can't do it. I have places and events that I won't wear a skirt to, even though some of the participants already are aware that I wear skirts.

Its funny after some of these events the feeling is"I could of" and "I should have "
I can totally relate to that feeling.

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Post by Caultron »

denimini wrote:If you get to the point where you are comfortable about wearing a skirt anywhere, then you don't feel you have to prove a point to anyone and can allow yourself to be strategic about when not to wear a skirt.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.


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Post by weeladdie18 »

I would say that if the sales person you are dealing with " Likes your style," you are more likely
to get a competitive price....I tried out a different café for a pot of tea today...The café was
struggling to gain a foot in the door as a new Premises.......I tried the usual tricks but they were
struggling for trade.....There was a problem with the seating arrangements and small children were
using the floor as a nursery school , the catchment area was a boat yard, I leave you to guess the
type of customer the trader would expect...The price of a pot of tea was twice the price of
the local competition. I doubt that they will be trading next year.
There again, if your friends of your class status recommend a café. it is likely you will obtain
a good deal....I feel the catering industry are suffering from a number of economic problems
as are the High Street traders. The simple answer is that there is a cash flow problem and
at present the customer is attempting to trim their budget......I feel that many traders will
go to the wall before we get a better deal.

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Post by STEVIE »

From my own experience in my pre-skirt days I was involved in some complex family business.
I found that suited and booted eased a lot of that particular process.
People are basically too easily swayed by the superficial.
Nowadays I conduct the vast majority of my affairs skirted. I canot say that I have found it disadvantageous in any way.
I was a very long term retailer and am very aware of what constitutes good service. If it's bad you aint getting my hard earned cash, simple.
Indeed, when shopping or on a rare occaion entering a bank, I generally get the most diligent attention.
I think the employees assume that I am some sort of test shopper. Going out for coffee or a beer to a new place is pretty much the same.
The fact that I now use elbow crutches only enhances that scenario. People see that first and lend a hand.
I would also add that it is not just the commercial aspects but people are mostly good natured too.
The only situation where I won't go skirted is for my Daughter or where it would detract from the importance or solemnity of a specific occasion.

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