Where Do we Draw the Line ?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby weeladdie18 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:31 pm

Further to Moon's recent post ; who has actually said that any one of our..... " Men in in Skirts " .....
is a ...." cissy cross dressing fruit cake " ? ...........weeladdie
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby weeladdie18 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:46 pm

Happy-N-Skirts wrote:My personal choice is to wear skirts that closely resemble shorts. I wear them for comfort and freedom but also for fun.
I prefer to blend in and not be noticed. I have never had a negative experience while wearing a skirt. I have worn skirts for a few years and I like to wear one as often as possible.


I would say this is a fair comment. We all enjoy wearing our own style of skirt and we are comfortable wearing our own choice of skirt.
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby pelmut » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:30 pm

I just wear skirts.

Much of the time they are utilitarian denim for everyday jobs around the house.  Sometimes, if I am going out somewhere, I take a bit more trouble with my appearance and try to match skirts and tops; then I might choose more feminine fabrics and styles.  For special events such as dances and festivals I will choose something even more feminine, preferably with a bit of swing to it, for dancing. Although I don't wear makeup, jewellery or high heels I am often mistaken for a woman and I am quite comfortable with that - far more comfortable than being seen as a man in a dress - but that is my own particular preference because I am transgender.  

It must be much more difficult for cisgender men to cross that line into styles that could get them mistaken for women if that is a situation they would rather not have to contend with.
Last edited by pelmut on Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby beachlion » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:45 pm

I'm in the same boat as Happy-N-Skirts, the main drive is comfort. Yesterday I went to the beach and when I stopped to get something to drink, I was in a denim skirt of 36 cm (14"). I felt sligthly outside my comfort zone. Going out, my skirts are not shorter than 40 cm (16"). Beside that most skirts look like my shorts fabric wise, they are only a little longer. In the dunes or at the beach it is another story. I go a little wild because the next step is stripping to almost nothing.
Like I said before, drawing a line is out of the question for me. A litle over 5 years back, I was not even thinking of skirts and now I go almost everywhere in them.
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby crfriend » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:19 pm

weeladdie18 wrote:Perhaps we are looking for a guideline which does not exist...

This is one of the things that bedevils us -- there are no "rules" nor even "guidelines" for what a guy in a skirt is supposed to wear, or how he's to do it. This is simultaneously a blessing and a curse: a curse because there is no guidance and a blessing because we get to make up our own rules as we go along.

A very long time ago, I espoused what I called the "believability test": Is this rig believable in a public setting? I.e. "Will it put people off or confuse them so badly that they cannot figure out what's going on." The conventional thinking on this surrounds what's potentially "acceptable" in a skirt being worn by a man. Usually this revolves around denim, heavy pleating to evoke a "kilt!" reaction, or sometimes overwhelming "masculine" adornment like D-rings, chains, and industrial-strength zips. Unconventional thinking, however, turns that on its head and emphasizes the overall presentation -- including the wearer himself. The body in the skirt inextricably becomes part of the picture; in this thinking, behaviour is absolutely as important as look -- and can override other perceptions an onlooker may have.

In my experience, using unconventional thinking and not letting the skirt define my behaviours (other than necessary skirt-related behaviours like being able to control wind and not flashing the spectators). I have had very few negative encounters -- and I can find myself in some pretty rough situations on occasion; the few I've had have also been tainted with mental states altered by alcohol or other drugs. By contrast, the overwhelming majority of my encounters have been positive and affirming. In short, be yourself when out and about in one of your skirts. Don't take on airs, don't try to "butch up", don't do anything you wouldn't do if you were wearing tr*users. Put explicitly and bluntly, don't even try the "attempting to 'pass' game": you will fail.

Some of my rigs draw more attention than others. For instance, my white-purple-and-teal batik skirt gets a lot of comments when paired up with my purple waistcoat -- all overwhelmingly positive. My blue-based peacock-feather skirt when paired off with an electric-blue dress shirt and a blank waistcoat as a buffer also draws rave reviews. And I picked up a few good comments this evening wearing a matte-black micro-pleated midi with a teal shirt and my purple velvet waistcoat.

I'm beginning to think that it's not so much the skirt that's in play here it's the man wearing it -- and doing so with an air of confidence that is unassailable.

To conclude, I do not believe that there is a "line". Because we define where the "line" is; hence it doesn't exist save for in our heads.
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby moonshadow » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:36 pm

weeladdie18 wrote:Further to Moon's recent post ; who has actually said that any one of our..... " Men in in Skirts " .....
is a ...." cissy cross dressing fruit cake " ? ...........weeladdie


It's a figure of speech.

But I am pretty sure there have been people in my real world who have thought of me in such a manner.

It doesn't really bother me that much any longer.
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby phathack » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:04 am

moonshadow wrote:
weeladdie18 wrote:Further to Moon's recent post ; who has actually said that any one of our..... " Men in in Skirts " .....
is a ...." cissy cross dressing fruit cake " ? ...........weeladdie


It's a figure of speech.

But I am pretty sure there have been people in my real world who have thought of me in such a manner.

It doesn't really bother me that much any longer.

Im of an age I don't care what others think of how I dress. I wear what I want where ever I want to wear it. The chances of seeing me in jeans or slacks and a polo shirt are slim and none.
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby weeladdie18 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:04 am

I would agree with recent posts that the confidence to chat to those who see me when dressed as " a Man in a Skirt " over rules the clothes
I have chosen to wear.....It is perhaps interesting to note that the lassies remind me that they have spoken to me before, and remind
which skirt I was wearing during our previous encounter..... I was wracking my brain yesterday....a lassie told me she had spoken to me
before, at a different location, and reminded me which skirt I was wearing on that occasion....It is now over twelve hours later that
I am remembering our previous meeting ......possibly a month ago......
It is perhaps interesting to consider if the female remembers a male face or the skirt the male was wearing a month ago.

A couple of days ago an Assistant in a museum remarked....." I see you are wearing a different skirt today....... "

The lesson here is that we should seriously consider our skirt outfit when we go out on the street ,as we will stand out in a crowd....weeladdie
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby denimini » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:31 am

Happy-N-Skirts wrote:My personal choice is to wear skirts that closely resemble shorts. I wear them for comfort and freedom but also for fun.
I prefer to blend in and not be noticed. I have never had a negative experience while wearing a skirt. I have worn skirts for a few years and I like to wear one as often as possible.

That is very much the easy road I take. I think men can wear flowers, patterns and frills but it is pushing another boundary in most western cultures which I can't be bothered taking on at present. I enjoy the comfort of skirts in summer, wearing them everywhere but restricting the more radical garments to the home environment. I admire the fortitude of Moonshadow and SkirtsDad.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby Caultron » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:28 am

weeladdie18 wrote:I would agree with recent posts that the confidence to chat to those who see me when dressed as " a Man in a Skirt " over rules the clothes I have chosen to wear.....It is perhaps interesting to note that the lassies remind me that they have spoken to me before, and remind which skirt I was wearing during our previous encounter..... I was wracking my brain yesterday....a lassie told me she had spoken to me before, at a different location, and reminded me which skirt I was wearing on that occasion...

For sure, some people will remember you and recognize you for being skirted even after a long time.

Chalk up one for being unique.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby Daryl » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:30 am

weeladdie18 wrote:This topic may have been covered somewhere else.......However with the warmer weather more females are wearing skirts " out in the wild "
The issue is when is a style or pattern or colour of a skirt too feminine for a " man in a skirt " to wear ?

Am I correct in assuming that it is safe to wear "traditional summer skirts " as a male summer garment but there is a line where some
Skirts make a "man in a skirt " look feminine or to use the T V terminology ....." Appear as a female "......


In one sense there are no lines but I think there may be a relative line available. Consider what you would do if you were actually trying to trick people into seeing you as a female. That could define the line for you.

This summer I started wearing a pink straight skirt with a sleeveless white/pink/brown leafy pattern blouse I instantly fell in love with while in Walmart. Even my ankle socks are usually pink, in this outfit. Even at this level of femme-ness I still get called "sir".
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby weeladdie18 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:02 pm

Perhaps a male can wear pink as a level of femme - ness, without actually being effeminate.
Does this come back to the suggestion that it is impossible for a male to actually " appear " as a female ?
Many T.V.s have tried and failed...............others consider there is no line which the " Man in a skirt " can cross....
this whole issue could be relative to our ......." maleness "...... and not the clothes we choose to wear......... .......weeladdie
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby kilty » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:20 pm

weeladdie18 wrote:Perhaps a male can wear pink as a level of femme - ness, without actually being effeminate.
Does this come back to the suggestion that it is impossible for a male to actually " appear " as a female ?
Many T.V.s have tried and failed...............others consider there is no line which the " Man in a skirt " can cross....
this whole issue could be relative to our ......." maleness "...... and not the clothes we choose to wear......... .......weeladdie


It depends on the level we take it to... as JeffB says he doesn't want to be a woman, just dress as one... he must dress so extensively with other fem accessories including earrings, lipstick, makeup, handbags, shoes, plus feminine gait, or walk, that either staff in shops feel compelled to use the feminine gender of "hi Miss" or they are being a tad facetious. I have worn pink mens shirts with tight skirts, but have always been called "Sir"... if we naturally look like men, it must be a lot of effort put in to be called by the opposite gender. People might make the effort to call you "Miss" so they don't fall foul of transphobia / misgendering in these increasingly litigious times, as saying the wrong thing can get you fired :oops:

This is the social passing so many Trans people hope to achieve, that most people assume you are female. Some mis gendering is deliberate, some can be genuine mistake...
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby crfriend » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:12 pm

kilty wrote:It depends on the level we take it to... as JeffB says he doesn't want to be a woman, just dress as one... he must dress so extensively with other fem accessories including earrings, lipstick, makeup, handbags, shoes, plus feminine gait, or walk, that either staff in shops feel compelled to use the feminine gender of "hi Miss" or they are being a tad facetious. I have worn pink mens shirts with tight skirts, but have always been called "Sir"... if we naturally look like men, it must be a lot of effort put in to be called by the opposite gender. People might make the effort to call you "Miss" so they don't fall foul of transphobia / misgendering in these increasingly litigious times, as saying the wrong thing can get you fired :oops:

This is the social passing so many Trans people hope to achieve, that most people assume you are female. Some mis gendering is deliberate, some can be genuine mistake...

Indeed, and quite likely each and every one of us has a "limit" beyond which he is uncomfortable with.

With simple skirts, there's quite a lot of leeway in which one can work with as far as maintaining an overall "masculine" image. Dresses tend to be devils because there's not all that much you can do other than sport facial hair that makes you unmistakably male. I believe it was ChrisM who advocated for the "rule of one" -- i.e. only one "feminine" component at a time -- and that can work in many instances where it's possible to mix and match. Contemplate for a moment how badly a dress fiddles with that "rule of one".

So, we're left with our own inhibitions about where our personal "lines" are, and I think that's normal and perfectly healthy -- and it's going to vary around depending on our own personal taste, bearing, and demeanour.
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Re: Where Do we Draw the Line ?

Postby weeladdie18 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:21 pm

Carl, I would agree that that the rule of only one female garment at a time is a reasonable rule of thumb..... We claim to be " Men in Skirts "
We do not claim to be "Men who dress in complete female outfits and appear as women." .....this is where our credibility lays......weeladdie
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