Common Vision

[SkirtsDad]

I would be in the 0 to 1 range. I really do not think that clothes should be gendered at all. I believe anyone should be able to wear anything they want with out being castigated for it. Clothes should be stylish and colorful. Some styles that flatter the females and some that flatter the males but all could be worn by either.

Fred

I agree with you there Fred. Clothing choices are in part determined by body shape, which will have some gender connotations, for instance men tend to have broader shoulders, so from a fashion perspective, it is not unreasonable that there may be some instances where it will be advantageous to tailor clothing accordingly. When you take a look at women's fashion shops, many of those are aimed, or at least used to be aimed, at certain body shapes. If my memory serves me well, 20 years ago, Topshop rarely catered for anything above a C bra size and tops/dresses were also designed for less not more - my then wife was 34DD and had to shop at M&S where the bra's were 'practical' rather than pretty. Fortunately, things have changed. The catwalks are becoming more regulated, but more importantly, high street fashion takes into account a wide variety of body shapes and sizes. The following article talks about how "the fashion industry has been embracing diversity": http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 32806.html

When it comes to a 'common vision' I think we are probably united on wanting skirts to be 'accepted' for men in so much as we don't get grief from employers etc. however what a skirt is, or should be, or what it represents (if anything) does seem to vary a lot. My personal goal is '0' i.e. I don't see clothing as gendered, but as a point where I would like society to be then I'd would hope that it would be a '5' or '6' but realistically I'd be more than happy if it even made a '10'

[JohnH]

I have always held the belief that clothing is functional, not sexual, but it needs to be styled according to the body shape of the wearer. I know plenty of men who are big enough on top for a bra to be helpful, and I know plenty of women who are so small that a bra is useless.

There are some men, including myself, who should wear bras. It's one thing to see breasts jiggling on cute young women, but it's disgusting to see the jiggle on older men.

John

My opinion differs. I think letting everyone jiggle naturally is best.

Not if the jiggling hurts. It hurts for me to ride or drive in a vehicle, or walk briskly or run if I don't wear a bra. My bra size is 40DD.
At one time I was thinking of transitioning to being a woman. I have the appearance but I sure do not have the voice. I'm a basso profundo whose speaking voice is deep for a man. And when I wake up my speaking voice is anywhere between A1 (55 Hz) and D2 (75 Hz). I do not want to do anything to jeopardize my singing voice.

I was active in the transgender section of Crossdressers.com and thinking of taking on the name Johanna. But I have backed off and firmly identify as a man with my given name John.

John

[JohnH]

Duplicate post

[Jim]

There are some men, including myself, who should wear bras. It's one thing to see breasts jiggling on cute young women, but it's disgusting to see the jiggle on older men.

My opinion differs. I think letting everyone jiggle naturally is best.

Not if the jiggling hurts. It hurts for me to ride or drive in a vehicle, or walk briskly or run if I don't wear a bra. My bra size is 40DD.

I have no problem with being comfortable, but with calling others "disgusting" if they choose differently. This is what we don't like when our skirts are thought disgusting.

[Grok]

In reality, pushing the boundaries too far, too quickly, works against the effort to break down cultural barriers, so whereas I would go 0-1 as a long-term goal, I'm pragmatic enough to believe that 7-8 is about as far as society would be willing to go at present - and here is Australia it might even be 9!

Yeah, if you want to popularize MIS, I think you are right.

Something like Macabi or Skirtcraft garments are probably as far from traditional masculinity as you can get and still promote this goal.

[Stevie D]

.... I do admire Mark as in Mark, but I have seen his Pinterest page has gone and so has he, which is a shame as he had some nice workwear....

Mark is still a member of the Cafe (look him up in the Members section of the forum - link is on the upper right of each page).
His Pinterest page is here:
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/nobody_much ... -martha-b/

[jmiller842]

Kilty
I followed Crystal James too till she dropped off the web. I hope she's doing ok.

I too was a follower of Crystal when she had her blogspot "A Bea-YOU-tiful You". Prior to her transition, I found her an inspiration to guys who like to wear skirts. Last I saw, she had a closed group on Facebook called "Legstyle".

[Grok]

I don't have a vision regarding the end result, because I believe that will be up to younger generations. In the present and near future, I would have to distinguish between small group(s) of mavericks-who dress to please themselves-and the vast conformist herd that most men belong to.

For the vast conformist herd, I do have a notion as to how change may come about:

1. Initially, rigs involving skirt like garments worn over trousers. The outer layer would either be water proof (to keep the rain off), or act as an extra layer of insulation during winter weather. Also, perhaps, skorts.

2. Eventually, a skirt worn with some sort of leggings.

This notion is really just an intellectual exercise for me. I wouldn't be surprised if most men were to stick to trousers even if MIS gained traction. (Most women seem to prefer trousers, and they have options that men lack). What I am interested in is options for the male Skirtonian.

[Kilty]

.... I do admire Mark as in Mark, but I have seen his Pinterest page has gone and so has he, which is a shame as he had some nice workwear....

Mark is still a member of the Cafe (look him up in the Members section of the forum - link is on the upper right of each page).
His Pinterest page is here:
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/nobody_much ... -martha-b/

Stevie, that's all that remains of his page... the rest was deleted, and cannot be found on Pinterest. Another user called "Nobody Much" with a 'Wearers' (men in skirts) section had a few of his archived pics, but not all such as when Mark was in his warehouse, checking out a pallet of goods in a fetching grey pencil skirt, the same one used when attending to a copier Perhaps now he's in the US there's less freedom to skirt due to work commitments compared to Germany, or he's busy and has dropped off the radar, or something else. I don't know if it was Pinterest themselves who deleted his pics. There was a pic where he is showing off the seam in his tights and has hitched his pencil skirt up somewhat that seems to have gone, and only traces remain were of his love of cars... having the same dress style, I found him an inspiration as I wear the same cut and length of formal skirt myself Hopefully he will return. So many have left and transitioned, Crystal James as mentioned before, Pythos was another user here, I think now is a female stand up comic...

I guess after just dressing the lower half for a while as "men in skirts", the need to accessorize with tights, heels, then tops them dresses is natural, and for some this site is a natural stepping stone to other things.

I think to the public, skirt will always equal female, but I guess fashion may progress if they can produce something practical, credible and not so expensive for guys to wear.

[Caultron]

...Stevie, that's all that remains of his [Mark as in Mark's] page... the rest was deleted, and cannot be found on Pinterest. Another user called "Nobody Much" with a 'Wearers' (men in skirts) section had a few of his archived pics, but not all such as when Mark was in his warehouse, checking out a pallet of goods in a fetching grey pencil skirt, the same one used when attending to a copier Perhaps now he's in the US there's less freedom to skirt due to work commitments compared to Germany, or he's busy and has dropped off the radar, or something else...

I confess to being "Nobody Much" (don't tell anyone, as my caultron account got deleted for nebulous reasons) but I don't know what happened to Mark. I know he alternated between working in Germany and the US, and his time in Germany was up, and he was returning to the US, and then he went silent. So maybe his management here in the US was much less amused than in Germany but that's total conjecture on my part. I really have no facts.

[Grok]

An alternative concept would be a stealth skirt. One designed to look like baggy shorts, with pleats in front and rear. Perhaps the pleats could be fastened together to form shorts, similar to the Purple Rain "kilts".

[trainspotter48]

As pointed out by Grok, one route could be the 'Stealth Skirt'.

There used to be a couple of suppliers who would make one of these. Unfortunately, I think both have ceased trading.

In the UK, we had Mr Anubis for a time, but they eventually closed down that side of their business (I think they are still there as 'Orange and Black', but I don't know what they currently offer).

Similarly, in the US, I believe a company called J'dez traded for a while, but they also now appear to be defunct.

[Gregg1100]

Re- pintinterest. because I used to save pics of men in skirts, dresses etc, plus ladies dresses/skirts , the tossers shut my account down. They didn't have the decency or balls to tell me why. Mark as in Mark had some good outfits on the site- they gave others not so co-ordinated, ideas as to what goes with what. Thanks Mark. And stuff pintinterest.

[Kilty]

...Stevie, that's all that remains of his [Mark as in Mark's] page... the rest was deleted, and cannot be found on Pinterest. Another user called "Nobody Much" with a 'Wearers' (men in skirts) section had a few of his archived pics, but not all such as when Mark was in his warehouse, checking out a pallet of goods in a fetching grey pencil skirt, the same one used when attending to a copier Perhaps now he's in the US there's less freedom to skirt due to work commitments compared to Germany, or he's busy and has dropped off the radar, or something else...

I confess to being "Nobody Much" (don't tell anyone, as my caultron account got deleted for nebulous reasons) but I don't know what happened to Mark. I know he alternated between working in Germany and the US, and his time in Germany was up, and he was returning to the US, and then he went silent. So maybe his management here in the US was much less amused than in Germany but that's total conjecture on my part. I really have no facts.

Mark explained to me that a particular member of staff took exception to his outfits, so he removed his collection of pictures which featured his workplace. He is still skirted at work, having dealt with that particular member of staff. Pics section contained a nice black ensemble. Pinterest can be very picky, so I tend to weave in the skirts among kilt pictures (they are none the wiser), so Mark may just be playing it safe as putting such pics in the public domain such as Pinterest isn't as secure as here

[Caultron]

FWIW, I've been through multiple cycles of Pinterest cancelling my account without giving me a reason, of me swearing never to sign up again, and then me eventually doing so.

They seem to be driven by "reports" by other users that one or more pins are objectionable. Pinterst tells you when these come in but doesn't identify which pins have been reported as objectionable, making it impossible to clean up the site. I guess they want you to go throug all your pins with some sort of paranoid mindset deleting things pell mell.

My current iteration has lasted several years and is up to some 11,500 men-in-skirts pins. I think the previous one got deleted because of some boys-in-skirts pins, but that's questionable because all the photos were already on Pinterst and remained so after my account was deleted. But perhaps no one happened to report those other sites.

After I win $500 million or so in the lottery, I may dispatch a gang of lawyers to investigate this further.