What if We did the same to Them?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
User avatar
skirtyscot
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 3448
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:44 pm
Location: West Kilbride, Ayrshire, Scotland
Contact:

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by skirtyscot »

hairy wrote:Anyone says anything negative about my skirting, I can just lift my head high and walk away feeling happy and free.


:D :D
Keep on skirting,

Alastair
User avatar
oldsalt1
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 2470
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:25 pm
Location: Long Island, New York

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by oldsalt1 »

Daryl you are entitled to your beliefs but I find your references offensive
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
Posts: 14431
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)
Contact:

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by crfriend »

Daryl wrote:Personally, even if I were touched by His noodly appendage every time I put on a skirt, I'd still have to wonder what He was trying to tell me.

(note: I capitalise the pronoun not for emphasis but for formality, and use the male gender only because it's obvious since FSM is almost always depicted with meatballs)
Blast! FSM. I really should have seen that coming. (facepalm)
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Stevie D
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 479
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by Stevie D »

crfriend wrote:
Daryl wrote:Personally, even if I were touched by His noodly appendage every time I put on a skirt, I'd still have to wonder what He was trying to tell me.

(note: I capitalise the pronoun not for emphasis but for formality, and use the male gender only because it's obvious since FSM is almost always depicted with meatballs)
Blast! FSM. I really should have seen that coming. (facepalm)
I had to look up FSM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
Hilarious - great stuff! Anyone who can't laugh at that is taking themselves too seriously. :D
Stevie D
(Sheffield, South Yorkshire)
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
Posts: 14431
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)
Contact:

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by crfriend »

Stevie D wrote:I had to look up FSM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
Hilarious - great stuff! Anyone who can't laugh at that is taking themselves too seriously. :D
Aren't you glad you hang out here from time to time?

Rule Two: (there being no Rule One (Yet)) If we can't laugh from time to time there is something incontrovertibly wrong.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
skirts4me
Distinguished Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:00 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by skirts4me »

moonshadow wrote:I didn't attempt the "why" exercise with Mom, but a about a year or so ago, we did explore the issue, and she admitted to me "I can not find any logical reason for you not to do this, and I've tried!"
Did you thank your Mum and wear a skirt in gratitude?
moonshadow wrote:I have played the "why" card with a few others, the first time was actually the very first co-worker who spotted the photo on facebook. A very fundamental Christian man.
"You're not supposed to wear skirts"
"Says who?"
"God"
Ah! Someone who has a video or audio recording of what God said! His recordings should make him richer than everyone else combined! As an active Christian I would have responded that every man in the Bible (Hebrew and Christian scriptures) wore skirts or dresses, and not a single one of them wore trousers, so why would God tell us that we're not supposed to wear skirts? The Romans conquered the known world wearing micro-minis (a.k.a. togas) and no underwear, and the Greeks did a similar thing, also wearing minis (a.k.a. fustanellas).They didn't have to give up their outfits when they became Christian.
Shalom
Steven
skirts4me
Distinguished Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:00 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by skirts4me »

Daryl wrote: That's the easy one. Leviticus 18:22, the supposed commandment-like teaching against male homosexuality. Of course it doesn't refer to skirts but it is the underpinning of fundamentalist understanding of sex roles and challenging gendered social norms like dress is in the simple fundamentalist mind just the thin end of the same wedge. Essentially, being like a woman in any way is just wrong, for men.
Deuteronomy 22:5 is the usually quoted verse against men wearing skirts, but my learnèd Jewish friends have confirmed that the context shows it had nothing to do with men wearing skirts (they already did every day). The same text was used against women wearing trousers in the 40s, 50s and even 60s, but that's conveniently forgotten these days.
Shalom
Steven
Ray
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:03 am
Location: West Midlands, England, UK

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by Ray »

Daryl,

Great reference! I hadn't heard of the FSM. What an excellent creation! I chuckled at the imagined image of Pastafarians arguing with some loony Creationists.
Ray
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1733
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:03 am
Location: West Midlands, England, UK

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by Ray »

Thread drift.

Back on topic, I agree with the "turn the argument around" approach. It's best done politely though, and with respect to the other party. Polite but firm. Yes, the argument is likely to founder on some societal rocks, but pointing out the inherent flaws in such dead end thinking can do no harm. The other party may be resolute in her thinking, but any bystanders may start to see sense.
User avatar
Charlie
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 668
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:52 pm
Location: Somerset, England

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by Charlie »

crfriend wrote:"men don't wear skirts",
A man actually said that to me once. I replied "this one does" and kept walking. On reflection, asking 'why' would have been a better response; at least it would have made him think.
Charlie
If I want to dress like a woman, I'll wear jeans.
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
Posts: 14431
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)
Contact:

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:
moonshadow wrote:God... the ball's in your court... I'm waiting... In fact. I'm wearing my mouseworks skirt now. Let see it!
See... doesn't look like she has a problem with it... :wink:
Save your breath. The problem with deities -- if they even exist -- is that they don't listen. So, "calling out" a god is a waste of time and energy.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
User avatar
Daryl
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1219
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:25 am
Location: Toronto Canada

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by Daryl »

Ray wrote:Daryl,

Great reference! I hadn't heard of the FSM. What an excellent creation! I chuckled at the imagined image of Pastafarians arguing with some loony Creationists.
You know the parallel between our situation with respect to clothing freedom and FSM really struck me. Both our skirting and FSM stand in defiance of a norm that is a reification of an idea. FSM points out that the idea is still just an idea, and we find ourselves needing to point out that "skirts are not for men" is just an idea, too. Reification lends an idea more force -- "it's not just an idea; it's a fact". This hard wall is the one we seem to come up against over and over.
Daryl...
User avatar
Daryl
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1219
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:25 am
Location: Toronto Canada

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by Daryl »

oldsalt1 wrote:Daryl you are entitled to your beliefs but I find your references offensive
Duly noted.
Daryl...
User avatar
Daryl
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1219
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:25 am
Location: Toronto Canada

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by Daryl »

skirts4me wrote:
Daryl wrote: That's the easy one. Leviticus 18:22, the supposed commandment-like teaching against male homosexuality. Of course it doesn't refer to skirts but it is the underpinning of fundamentalist understanding of sex roles and challenging gendered social norms like dress is in the simple fundamentalist mind just the thin end of the same wedge. Essentially, being like a woman in any way is just wrong, for men.
Deuteronomy 22:5 is the usually quoted verse against men wearing skirts, but my learnèd Jewish friends have confirmed that the context shows it had nothing to do with men wearing skirts (they already did every day). The same text was used against women wearing trousers in the 40s, 50s and even 60s, but that's conveniently forgotten these days.
Man, this is why I like to get out of my echochamber every so often. Learn something new every day.
Daryl...
User avatar
crfriend
Master Barista
Posts: 14431
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: New England (U.S.)
Contact:

Re: What if We did the same to Them?

Post by crfriend »

oldsalt1 wrote:Daryl you are entitled to your beliefs but I find your references offensive
How could any rational person be offended by the Flying Spaghetti Monster? The mind boggles.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Post Reply