I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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hairy
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I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by hairy »

Only just recently seen this Grayson Perry bloke, he don't just wear skirts but goes over the top, and in my personal view does not do skirt wearers any good. What do the rest of you think? I guess that like everyone he's free to wear what he wants.
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Stu »

Grayson Perry? Not a lot. I'm not keen on his work as a potter - I think it sets out to shock.

He is a colourful character (a potty potter) and he expresses this in his bizarre sartorial choices. He can pull this of because he is a metropolitan arty type and inhabits a particular world which would be alien to most of us.

I don't think he is relevant in terms of extending clothing options for men.
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Caultron
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Caultron »

I think anyone who blurs the line between archetypical male and female widens exposure and acceptance for all of us.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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dillon
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by dillon »

Sorry, never heard of him.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
Stevie D
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Stevie D »

dillon wrote:Sorry, never heard of him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayson_Perry

A photo

Another photo
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JeffB1959
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by JeffB1959 »

Outlandish as all get out, but hey, to each their own.
I don't want to LOOK like a woman, I just want to DRESS like a woman.
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Stu »

Mr Perry is not challenging limitations on what men can wear. The effect of what he is doing from our point of view is, at best, neutral and, at worst, slightly damaging.

In his sartorial extravagances, he has two aims - one is to emphasise the "little girl" element and the second is to make a visual spectacle of himself. Aside from any thrill he gets from owning and donning such garb, he is also putting himself in the limelight and distinguishing himself from others. To someone who makes his living in the arts, this is gold dust. It is self-publicity and it is always good for him. Just to be clear, I don't blame him one bit for doing this - in fact, I would say good for him!

But our aims are very different from his. We seek to take back choices that have been appropriated from the masculine by the feminine, thus diminishing our choices. We must assert that the garments we wear are just as much a part of the male wardrobe, and even signifiers of our masculinity, as any other men's attire. If we succeed, then other men will ask themselves why they are limiting their own choices and they will want to liberate themselves from the fashion constraints which society has imposed on men and boys. If, on the other hand, we attempt to associate our cause with that of a man who wants to present to the world as a little girl, then we will understandably attract some of the ridicule which goes his way. The difference is that he laps up such ridicule as it is part of his marketing strategy - but we can not as it mitigates against our aims.
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by dillon »

I always thought the point of this forum was to distinguish ourselves from crossdressers. I guess I'd have to say he is off-theme for these fora. I am neutral on his issues, just don't think this is the site to promote him.
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Gregg1100
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Gregg1100 »

He probably doesn't give a toss about what people think of him. I wouldn't---if you don't like it either stay silent or bog off. None of your business.
Which is the same as wearing skirts out in public- if other people don't like the look, tough. It is what I AM comfortable with.
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Reaper_Man »

he enjoys what he does and it's mostly about publicity but i say good for him, if he likes doing it then why not, he's taken some **** over the years but he has the balls to keeps doing something that he likes doing and refuses to bow down to those that ridicule him ... gotta respect him for that, but he's not what most of us on this site are about, it's a whole different scenario for him and i doubt than any non skirt wearing men would associate him with anyone from the cafe
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

The irony of Stu's point is that through history as Western women adopted and adapted items of men's wear, it was the men who abandoned those items to maintain the sartorial symbols of their social superiority. Which is why in the 1800's it was illegal for women to wear pants in public in the US.

Once women gained acceptance of themselves in pants there was nowhere left for us men to go, except to accept women as our equals. From that perspective, by reclaiming the normality of men wearing skirts and dresses we're confirming the basic premise of feminism, that men and women are equals and should be treated as such. :D
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Gregg1100
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Gregg1100 »

I know this site is for men who want to wear skirts and Grayson Perry is far removed from us, being an obvious tranny- but it seems the lines here are becoming slightly blurred with high heels, tights, slips, finger and feet nail varnish, to mention just a few items. Just an observation. And no worries from me- got all the items mentioned above, lol. :)
One should be able to do what one wants to, wear what they want- and not get hassled by some neanderthal brain dead who cannot see past his/her very limited vision. Live and let live.
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by pelmut »

Gregg1100 wrote:I know this site is for men who want to wear skirts and Grayson Perry is far removed from us, being an obvious tranny...
Do you mean transvestite or transgender? The term "tranny" is more usually an offensive term for transgender, which he doesn't appear to be. If you really did mean transgender, some of us do come under that umbrella to some extent and might appreciate the use of a term which is less loaded with negative baggage.
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Disaffected.citizen
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Disaffected.citizen »

First and foremost, Grayson Perry is an artist; and an award winning one at that. I'm somewhat ambilavent about his "work" but tastes vary. Artists are often eccentric, or at least have some eccentricities. It is highly likely, by the very nature of the sartorial choices of members here, we too have "above the curve" artistic leanings.

One of Grayson's eccentricities is his alter ego, Claire. From the few occasions I've seen him participate in television dressed as Claire, he still responds to Grayson.

I don't think much of Claire's presentation, but good luck to him/her.
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Re: I'm wondering what people think of Grayson Perry

Post by Stu »

First, let me say that the word "tranny" is a hypocorism, in a similar way to the word "aussie" for Australian or "bookie" for bookmaker. It is not inherently offensive as it doesn't suggest that there is anything wrong with being a transvestite or transgender.

Second, if there is an issue, it is one of failing to distinguish between what are (as I understand it as an outsider) two very different phenomena. A transvestite is a man who gains some kind of pleasure or other emotional benefit from dressing as a woman and/or spending time in role as a woman. A transsexual is a person with gender identity disorder who has received or is receiving medical assistance to change sex and live full time as a member of the sex which is opposite to that recorded for them at their birth.

Transvestism is, so far as I know, entirely harmless. If someone derive some kind of psychological benefit from having a female alter ego, then good luck to them. My pleasures include drinking whisky and smoking my pipe and they are far less benign than putting on a wig and dress for a couple of hours and calling myself Brenda.
Transsexualism is a response to a disorder that is being treated accordingly. Neither category of people deserve to be mocked, maligned or abused, bit we owe it to them to be clear as to which category they fall into when we refer to them. In the UK, the word "tranny" was always an abbreviation for "transvestite", whereas I have heard this term used by American English speakers to refer to transsexuals, and that causes some misunderstanding.

The way forward, as always, is a bit of give and take, so I would suggest:

1. If you are neither transvestite or transsexual - it's perhaps better to avoid the term as it can cause hurt and also misunderstanding. Be more specific and, if it is not absolutely essential to mention it, don't raise the subject at all with someone who is trans.

2. If you are either transvestite or transsexual - unless it is intended to cause offence, why take offence? Like I said, it is a hypocorism and I guarantee that you use these words every day without realising. Please don't let this be yet another linguistic sacrifice to political correctness!
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