Where will we be in say... ten years?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Grok
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Grok »

Dust mentioned that his Running Kilt helped his wife to accept him wearing a non-kilt design. (The Running Kilt is actually an A-line skirt). I have noticed other comments that people seem to accept skirts for hiking. So, yes, skirts as athletic wear seem to be gaining traction, if slowly.

I can imagine non-kilt designs that include, for example, reflective material. Excellent pockets too.

Another possibility are sarongs, or conceivably the Filipino malong, as beach wear.
Grok
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Grok »

As for dress like designs, I think that caftans will be the first to gain traction. (as lounge wear). You can make a simple version yourself.
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Grok »

BTW, I see two different revolutions in terms of open ended garments. This is because skirt like garments-starting with kilting-have gained traction first. It seems that no dress like garment has gained traction yet.
PatJ
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by PatJ »

Where will we be in say... ten Years?

Odds are I will be resting in a small patch of ground I purchased years ago located a few miles
West of town.

If you look at the ages of the people in this group and add ten years, it will be the young folk
who will be trying to move fashion and not those of my age.
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Last Tuesday I started a new job and just like every other time they have seen me, including the Zoom interview, I was in womenswear; a blouse and skirt for the interview, dresses every other time. Mostly because that is what I always wear. Without any significant flashback, often with compliments on what I'm wearing and, like Faldaguy, not much caring if it catches on or not. I dress for myself.

That said, I hope that my willingness to be genuine inspires to live their lives more authentically. They'll be happier and the world will be a better place for it.

Like Dust, I have found that being more authentic has made it easier for me to be more open and honest about most everything. And that makes life easier and me more happy.

As the old Nike ad said, "Just do it!"
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

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Grok
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Grok »

Consider the sewing section.

It appears that rode_kater has made good progress in making a dress for himself. There have been projects by others. Ten years from now we will have accumulated much knowledge on how to make open ended garments for men. :D

Generally, tutorials are intended for women. We have to figure out how their techniques can be applied to garments tailored for men.
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Perhaps the following would have been better placed in the Sewing section, but here we are.

A friend from my Miata Club recently altered a dress for me. I asked her to help me out because it was of particularly good quality and I knew that if I couldn't mark it up properly if I was wearing it. I also know that my sewing skills are such that if I tried to do the resewing my inadequacies would not only show, but probably spoil the lines of the dress.

It turned out that not only does she have tailoring skills, but she is also a pattern maker. She explained that basically pattern makers chop up the human body into upper and lower quadrants, both in the front and the back. Those quadrants have to wrap a 3-dimensional body with 2-dimensional fabric. Naturally, the sizing and therefore the shapes of those quadrants are different for males and females. Once you fully appreciate that, creating a pattern for a simple dress for men comes down to pairing up the right-sized male upper quadrant pieces with the right-sized female pattern pieces.

At the end of the day, the basic pattern pieces may not look so different afterall. If you look at a pattern for a blouse or the bodice of a woman's dress you'll see that it's marked for darts. I have found that one of the better strategies for getting a better fit on my dresses is to take out the front darts. In fact, if it has 4 darts in the front, just taking out will generally do the trick. This approach works best on sheaths because they generally don't have a seam between the skirt and the bodice. But sometimes even with a seam around the middle, just letting out the upper darts makes the dress work without destroying the overall effect.

Maybe men and women aren't so different afterall.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

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rode_kater
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by rode_kater »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:20 am
It turned out that not only does she have tailoring skills, but she is also a pattern maker. She explained that basically pattern makers chop up the human body into upper and lower quadrants, both in the front and the back. Those quadrants have to wrap a 3-dimensional body with 2-dimensional fabric. Naturally, the sizing and therefore the shapes of those quadrants are different for males and females. Once you fully appreciate that, creating a pattern for a simple dress for men comes down to pairing up the right-sized male upper quadrant pieces with the right-sized female pattern pieces.
It's really interesting. I basically just traced a t-shirt, and two dresses and fitted the pieces into a new pattern. My SO exclaimed "you can't do that" but it turns out it does (mostly) work. The arm holes failed.

However, now I'm actually pulling apart an old t-shirt so I can use it for a pattern for the top half and do it properly. It'd be nice if I can get a basic block for a dress that works for me. Or ideally, for men in general. While women have darts up top, perhaps men need darts around the belly area :)

Maybe I should learn more about making patterns, then I can do it properly, for now I'll just use paper.
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Pdxfashionpioneer
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

If you want to take things to the next level I suggest you purchase either a pattern for the type of dress you're trying to make or of a skirt with the shape you'll want in your dress. Naturally, whichever you get, you'll want to get it in the size that fits. I've found my dress and skirt sizes are quite different. So, using a skirt pattern for the lower portion should give you a better fit. For the bodice, use a pattern for a shirt that looks like what you have in mind in for the top half of your dress in your size and you should be fine.

I wonder, though, if the armholes on the dress you crafted didn't work because you lined the dress or you used a stiffer material than the t-shirt was made of. Was either the case? Whatever the case, why not just alter the arm holes? And if you have sleeves on your dress, cut new sleeves?

Btw, if you're not going to line your dress, be sure to wear a slip or half-slip under it so that it moves on your body properly and retains its shape better while you're wearing it.

As far as types of dresses that work well on men, I suggest:
  • Sheaths
    Blouson dresses
    Shirtdresses
    Tankdresses (though you will have to shorten the straps from the length on a dress) and
    T-shirt dresses


Frankly, except for sometimes having to take out the darts or expand the armholes (Generally, men have larger biceps than women and make larger movements.), each of those styles work well for me right off of the rack.

Darts around beer bellies will emphasize the wearer's gut rather than camoflage (sp.) it. Not a flattering look in my mind.

But, if you're going to go to all of that work, be sure to come up with a design that YOU like! Good luck! I'm sure we're all eager to see how this last dress and your next dress looks on you.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Grok »

rode_kater wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:22 pm

It's really interesting. I basically just traced a t-shirt, and two dresses and fitted the pieces into a new pattern. My SO exclaimed "you can't do that" but it turns out it does (mostly) work. The arm holes failed.

However, now I'm actually pulling apart an old t-shirt so I can use it for a pattern for the top half and do it properly.
I have never tried to make a garment for women. Is it simpler to design tops for men, with no need to accommodate a woman's breasts?
Grok
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Grok »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:56 am

As far as types of dresses that work well on men, I suggest:
  • Sheaths
    Blouson dresses
    Shirtdresses
    Tankdresses (though you will have to shorten the straps from the length on a dress) and
    T-shirt dresses

Caftans also work on men. There have been a few threads about those.

Crfriend suggested coat dresses as a possibility.

Moon Shadow, I believe, has worn jumper type outfits.
Grok
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by Grok »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:56 am

Darts around beer bellies will emphasize the wearer's gut rather than camoflage (sp.) it. Not a flattering look in my mind.
If camouflage is the goal I would suggest a rather loose, flowy garment.
rode_kater
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Re: Where will we be in say... ten years?

Post by rode_kater »

Grok wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:39 pm
I have never tried to make a garment for women. Is it simpler to design tops for men, with no need to accommodate a woman's breasts?
I don't think it matters actually. I found a book "Patternmaking for fashion design" which goes into all the details and it turns out that for the basic shape you measure the body at various places and that makes the basic pattern. Breasts are accommodated with darts in particular places but you can just leave them out depending on the stretch of the fabric and what look you're aiming for.

Technically, the difference between clothing for men and women isn't that different. Women come in all shapes and sizes too. Different countries produce clothing with different measurements. However, a lot of stuff made specifically for women can appear odd on a male frame. But it should be able to work with only minimal adjustment, if you know how. In my case, my torso length/waist size ratio is just very different from a typical women, which makes many dresses either too wide or too short.

But then again, what appears "odd" is just whether you're used to it. Men's clothing doesn't do much with lace for example so we think it's odd, but if everyone did it no-one would notice. Nowadays you see women wearing only underwear outside under the label "sportswear", and it's "normal". Hence, we just need to wear skirts outside more often.

That said, there are some objective things, like lines should be either straight or curved. An almost straight wobbly line is going to look odd no matter what. Symmetry is good, if you go asymmetric, make it obvious. Stuff like that. I think this is what trips us up, that the fit is just slightly off that makes it look odd. See also "uncanny valley".
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