Difficulties with partners

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:37 am

My wife's reaction was extremely positive. She said she loves the way my a$$ looked in them and was also "turned on by the thought of seeing me wearing women's clothes." She couldn't decide what was more of a "turn on."


Keystone, I don't understand why you didn't just pick up that ball and run with it! It sounds to me like you could have made it to the goal line with her in hot pursuit of the opportunity to reach up and under your skirt to go for the gold! Cut to the chase man; if her initial response wasn't an open invitation, I don't think I've ever heard one! Of course, at this point you've dug yourself into the worst hole a man can dig himself into with his wife; you've been hiding something important from her!
Last edited by Pdxfashionpioneer on Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby GerdG » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:16 am

Keystone,

I think your objective and your strategy are perfect. You want to step by step win your wife for the idea of you wearing female clothing. Every time you take a step ahead, you make a brake and won’t take the next one until your wife feels totally comfortable. It takes a little longer, but the long term effect might be better than from a fast attack, where one step ahead might result in two steps back.

But from what you write, it seems that your wife might very well feel that you indeed are moving too slowly, that she in fact should like her husband in women’s clothes or want a unisex appearance. But that you are the best to judge.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Keystone » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:15 pm

Thanks Dennis, Stevie, David, GerdG,

Dennis,
Thanks for your words of caution on misinterpreting acceptance from my wife.  I agree that skirt-wearing may never be unnoticable but I'll continue to move forward but also play a muted, quiet approach when skirting.  I won't know what her tolerance line will be until I start pushing the boundaries.  My being overly cautious is rooted in my general pessimism on being supported by my wife.  In short, she opposes anything I want to do, including helping others and volunterring at church.  I agree with the notion that acceptance today doesn't not mean acceptance tomorrow.  I've become aquianted with another skirt-wearer whose wife did a complete 180 on the initial acceptance.  I wholeheartly agree that wearing a skirt in plublic raises the stakes 10 fold as fears of public humiliation would flood her mind.  I have a lot to win over before skirting in public (with her knowledge ;-)  In the meantime I'll stay the course until I see more positive feedback.  In the meantime, I jumped on creating another skirt-wearing opportunity when our cleaning lady quit (which was good as she was damaging too much (bull in a china shop cleaning style)).  As we engaged in our Saturday cleaning routines, I quickly discovered my leggings were too warm and donned my boxer skirt.  After some 30 minutes she recognized it with only a passing (neutral) comment.  When I finished, I went back to the leggings.  I like your approach to taking walks around the lake at dusk.  Hopefully that works out.  If you're willing, post the results.  I'm not sure how long it will take to gain acceptance from my wife but I'll continue to inch my way forward.  Thanks for your comments!

Thanks Stevie for your feedback. 
That's an interesting paradox that the more feedback you get from others, the more your wife objects.  I am a great believer in Murphy's Law and am approaching my skirt-wearing as such.  Having grown up in one bad marriage as a child I'm not looking to create another.  I have no optomisim whatsoever on understanding or being able to predict my wife and I'm only at the beginning of the beginning of being open about my skirt-wearing.

Hello David,
Re: Running the ball to the goal line.

I was so close to doing just that but the unpredictability of my wife kept me from going for it "on a 4th and short."  The temptation was tremendous.  You're somewhat correct in saying that in hidding my interest, I've dug myself into a hole.  She called me out on the fact that I hid my leggings from her and now the same could be said about my skirts.  Being that my wife opposes anything I want for myself I believe that I simply don't have any other choice but to take a chance.  In my marriage, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission.  However, I'm hoping the introduction of the boxer skirt will temper that notion of hiding.  A lot will come down to how I introduce my existing (hidden) skirt purchases.  The next big step will be when I wear my sweatskirt (terry cloth) for the first time.  Knock on wood.    

GerdG,

Thanks for your comments.  I hope I'm wrong with my over-cautiousness, moving too slow.  Nothing would make me happier to crank up the speed.   My wife has always been a bit of a tomboy, she played little league baseball as a child, likes machinery.  She looks like a boy in most of her school photos.  One would think she would be open and flixable to me wanting to do the same.  But as every spouse knows that reciprocity is rarely the rule in marriage.  The problem is that my wife is self-conscious of her tom-boyishness and feels the need to make sure her husband appears more masculine than her to show that she's not butch.  The solution to that is of course that she can make a greater effort to dress like a girly girl to offset that  ;-)  Thanks for your comments.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Sinned » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:40 pm

Keystone, you may want to invest in a knee-length denim skirt as that appears to be a masculine-looking skirt that's virtually invisible to the great unwashed. Being made of denim it immediately associates with jeans. May or may not work but it's worth a shot. But you know your situation and YOH [0] so take things at the pace that you think suitable.

[0] Hah, whoever syas that they know TOH is a delusioned fool and doesn't live in the real world. I've been married to mine for 43 years next month and she's still somewhat of a mystery. :lol:
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:32 am

Hello Keystone,

The way you describe your marriage makes me think you 2 have much larger issues than whether or not she accepts your wearing a skirt.

Your belief that your wife disapproves of your doing or getting anything for yourself is disturbing to me. That's no way to live! Before you go any further with the skirting, telling her, etc. I would get that issue resolved.

I expect if you can discuss this topic in a non-accusatory way (1), you may find out you were misreading her. Or maybe she is coming across harsher than she means to. If your read seems to be verified (2), I'd say the next step is to get some professional joint counseling. If she won't join you, go by yourself. Like I said, you don't need to and shouldn't live the life you described.

Solving that issue will change both of your lives for the better. She may be oppressing you because she feels she's not being her genuine self either to make you happy.

From my own experience, nothing feels better than being your genuine self and nothing is worth suppressing it. Nothing. My biggest regret is that it took me so long to figure out who I really am and what I really want. That's why the newest generation and the current generation are so exciting! They're fearless!



(1) For instance, "I'd like to talk to you about something important to me. Can we do that? I feel like you're constantly keeping me from the things I want and love when you … " And have several examples ready.

(2) If she has what can best be called a flimsy excuse for each occurrence, you were probably right and she's in denial about her behavior. Good outcomes include: "I'm so sorry. I didn't realize I was doing that …" Or, "I remember saying something to what you're saying, but I certainly didn't it mean that way. If you still want …, let's go and get it!"
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby STEVIE » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:50 pm

Hi Keystone,
I am no relationship counsellor so I won't offer up advice.
Come March I will have been married for 38 years and my skirts have been part of the relationship for somewhat longer.
That has involved a lot of compromise, conflict and 2 kids too. We have even managed some great times as well.
Right or wrong, we have stayed with it where others would simply have parted.
In the future, you may have to make a decision, just do it very carefully and keep all comms open as long as possible.
Good Luck to you both!
Steve.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Sinned » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:38 pm

Now this is why I'll never understand MOH. We'd just had an argument about an issue unrelated to skirts. At least it was really a one-way rant - me to her. She went to the gym to do aquafit so I didn't see her for a couple of hours. I put on one of my favourite skirts while she was out to cheer myself up. It's a grey/red tartan on the bias and it's mine forever. I'll post a photo at the end. Well I wasn't bothered if she came home to see me wearing it. She did return and had some salad for lunch. Sometime during her meal she said how much she liked the skirt that I was wearing and with the two-tone grey and red top ( different to the one in the photo ) it really suited me. Of course I tried not to let the shock show and said that it was one of my favourite skirts and I liked it from the moment I saw it on ebay. Of course she could just have been trying to soothe the atmosphere by paying me a complement. She does tend to act normal after a blow-out, as if nothing untoward has happened. It's me that gets all uptight. Apart from that I'm not sure what to make of it. She's at work till 22:00ish ( she works in a Chinese take-away ) so I'll see what occurs when she returns.

Be Beau 16 Tartan small.jpg
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Fred in Skirts » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:24 pm

Good luck Dennis!! :D
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:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby dillon » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:23 am

Anyone who married before coming to grips with his disposition toward skirts and other clothing traditionally reserved for women will encounter marital conflicts. It is understandable. I think many of us are so consumed with the courage required of ourselves to go out in skirts that we forget that courage is also required of the women in our lives. They’re confused about what the future holds, and it frightens them. They fear losing the most important part of their identity. And they must cope with the unspoken opinions of their peers. No one fancies being an object of either curiosity, laughter, or pity. And they may wonder, rightfully, if our cathartic decision regarding our clothing was totally unknown to our minds before we entered the institution of marriage. It’s understandable if they feel betrayed. Too, any woman would resent feeling as if she was being used as a “beard” for a man she no longer understands; a man who might have chosen her either because he saw her as gullible or was subconsciously attracted to some masculine characteristic she was unaware of. I’d daresay that our proclivity is a more difficult situation for our spouses than for ourselves, and that maybe we are at least a bit oblivious to exactly how difficult. We understand our own feelings and are actively embracing them. She cannot understand that which is nearly inarticulable for us.
As a matter of fact, the sun DOES shine out of my ...
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby crfriend » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:55 am

Well written, Dillon. Very well written indeed. I'm half tempted to split that out and make it a "sticky" so it doesn't get lost.

I was fortunate with my late ex-. She got over the hump in very short time (about 15 seconds by her recollection), but that was well before her brain shorted out. And she was truly remarkable in her intellect and perception. Today I'm single, and will likely remain so for the rest of my days. However, at this point, anybody I'm likely to "get interested in" is already going to know about my sartorial choices and will have the option to self-select out early on.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Fred in Skirts » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:11 am

I think that as men in skirts we should be just that men in skirts all of the time so that the women we would like to date and marry would know before hand and either go her own way or decide we are harmless and marry us anyway. This way she can not say she did not know and try to use that later in a court. If we as men continue to wear our skirts and dresses then we will become common place and it will no longer be a curiosity.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Bikerkilt » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:51 am

yes Carl you should make this a sticky
dillon wrote:Anyone who married before coming to grips with his disposition toward skirts and other clothing traditionally reserved for women will encounter marital conflicts. It is understandable. I think many of us are so consumed with the courage required of ourselves to go out in skirts that we forget that courage is also required of the women in our lives. They’re confused about what the future holds, and it frightens them. They fear losing the most important part of their identity. And they must cope with the unspoken opinions of their peers. No one fancies being an object of either curiosity, laughter, or pity. And they may wonder, rightfully, if our cathartic decision regarding our clothing was totally unknown to our minds before we entered the institution of marriage. It’s understandable if they feel betrayed. Too, any woman would resent feeling as if she was being used as a “beard” for a man she no longer understands; a man who might have chosen her either because he saw her as gullible or was subconsciously attracted to some masculine characteristic she was unaware of. I’d daresay that our proclivity is a more difficult situation for our spouses than for ourselves, and that maybe we are at least a bit oblivious to exactly how difficult. We understand our own feelings and are actively embracing them. She cannot understand that which is nearly inarticulable for us.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby skirtyscot » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:58 pm

Indeed. Well said, dillon.
Keep on skirting,

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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Keystone » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:20 am

Dennis,
Thanks for you suggestion of a knee length denim skirt. I have 6 denim skirts roughly 15”-17” (38-43cm) in length. 4 are stretchy. Is there a reason why you recommend knee length? Just curious. I’m guessing that it’s a length that is the closest to shorts. I'd probably wear the convention 100% cotton non-stretch when I decide to go for it. I also have roughly 5 different kinds of sport skirts (formerly skorts, I cut-out the briefs) that are black. They look like shorts so much that sometimes I don't feel they're skirty enough for me when I wear them. Unless I receive some recognizable positive feedback before spring, I'll skirt-on with my homemade boxer skirt. As for understanding my wife, I try not to kid myself in being able to predict her. She's not always vocal when she approves or disapproves of things. The boxer skirt so far has been given tacit approval. Thanks for the tips Dennis!

David,
Thanks for your comments. I think you're correct that there are greater issues underlying the marriage but I blame this on our 1970s "me” generation culture of selfishness. Her mother and father are also very selfishness. I come from a family where everyone was taught to understand the other person's position and was encouraged to negotiate. I also worked in customer service where I needed to find ways to meet the customer's wants. When it all boils, I believe it simply comes down personality differences and I don't believe that my wife is willing to change. I simply have to "luck out" and hope that she will accept my skirt wearing. If not, I'll continue to do my skirt-wearing on the sly. Granted, by doing so I'm practicing my own form of selfishness. I will, however, look for opportunities to talk about my clothing choices whenever they avail themselves. Thanks again for your insight and encouragement!

Thanks Steve for the encouragement. My wife and I pretty good at keeping open lines of communication. I'm especially mindful to be positive and engaging while skirting ;-)

Dennis,
Great to hear that your wife actually paid you a compliment on your recent skirt purchase. It might have been a damage control measure but any positive feedback is a good thing. I certainly would consider it a win. Great skirt! Looks super comfortable and coordinates well with your hooded sweatshirt.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Postby Freedomforall » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:18 am

Sinned wrote:Now this is why I'll never understand MOH. We'd just had an argument about an issue unrelated to skirts. At least it was really a one-way rant - me to her. She went to the gym to do aquafit so I didn't see her for a couple of hours. I put on one of my favourite skirts while she was out to cheer myself up. It's a grey/red tartan on the bias and it's mine forever. I'll post a photo at the end. Well I wasn't bothered if she came home to see me wearing it. She did return and had some salad for lunch. Sometime during her meal she said how much she liked the skirt that I was wearing and with the two-tone grey and red top ( different to the one in the photo ) it really suited me. Of course I tried not to let the shock show and said that it was one of my favourite skirts and I liked it from the moment I saw it on ebay. Of course she could just have been trying to soothe the atmosphere by paying me a complement. She does tend to act normal after a blow-out, as if nothing untoward has happened. It's me that gets all uptight. Apart from that I'm not sure what to make of it. She's at work till 22:00ish ( she works in a Chinese take-away ) so I'll see what occurs when she returns.

Be Beau 16 Tartan small.jpg


I like that outfit. It looks very nice on you.
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