Difficulties with partners

[skirtingtoday]

I needed to go out last night to get some money out of the cash machine and I was wearing a short yellow skirt and a dark blue football top. Now admittedly it was dark out and there would be few people about but even so MOH didn't raise any objections at all even though it as obvious was wearing a skirt. To say my ghast was well and truly flabbered would be an understatement. No sarky comments at the time. This just a one-off? Time will tell.

Great to hear Sinned - I still hope MOH will become as accepting eventually. Possibly once I get the Skirtcraft skirt I have ordered...? Were you alone at the time or was she with you?

Ross

[STEVIE]

I go out to work skirted, no comment from Mrs K.
I return each day, in the same attire. Likewise, no comment.
That's been most of this year, without a comment on my skirts.
Today was slightly different, a "dress down" at work.
Denim shirt, tee emblazoned with some witty remarks about beards, and pleated skirt.
She did remark "dress down day"? The shirt and tee were the focus of the query, not the skirt.
She may not comment nor object but I would not read that as acceptance.
However, right now, "indifference is bliss"
Steve.

[skirted_in_SF]

But she agrees that long hair and ear rings are apt for both sexes.

Interesting that it wasnt long ago that this too was considered queer. (Applying the classic definition of the word). All it takes is enough people doing it and suddenly its no longer a big deal!

I've had both ears pierced and filled with one of my pairs of studs since 2007. Sadly, due to a lack of material, long hair isn't in the cards.

[crfriend]

Interesting that it wasnt long ago that this too was considered queer. (Applying the classic definition of the word).

"Queer" used to be an adjective or an adverb used to describe something that was "slightly, but not overtly, 'off'". E.g. "There was something queer in the air that night, almost as if Mother Nature couldn't make up her mind whether to make it snow or summon a tornado." Or, when confronted with something that initially confused or baffled one, "Now, that's queer!" Like the equally useful term "gay", we lost "queer" when it became strictly and inextricably intertwined with homosexuality. Just try using either one of their terms in their original meaning and watch the expressions of those around you if you need an example.

All it takes is enough people doing it and suddenly its no longer a big deal!

One might also add, "and long enough" or, "if done shrilly enough and with enough overt pressure". The trans-* movement has been doing the latter with remarkable success recently (the last decade or two).

[moonshadow]

This part of the thread makes me think of one of the lyrics in an older country song..... "Feed Jake". The part about the ear piercing makes people think you're gay...... that is unless you drive a pickup truck... lol

[Reaper_Man]

I've had both my ears pierced since i was 17 or 18 years old (two piercings in each ear) and i've never had anyone call me gay, i've also always had long hair since my teens, sadly i'm now 50 and that hair is slowly starting to disappear, it gotten rather thin and whilst it is still shoulder length it never grows any longer than that (it used to be half way down my back in my younger years).

[hairy]

Hair's a bad subject with me. I had it very long and black since me teens and there was lots of it too and over 3 feet long. Alas its mostly gone now, just left with a thin rats tail down me back. Would I do it all again? you bet I would, the only thing is that every few years I'd cut it ALL off to give the roots a rest. It was me hair and bushy beard that had friends call me hairy, but now what they gonna call me when I end up with just the beard.

[moonshadow]

I've made attempts on a yearly basis for at least the last decade now to grow mine out. However it always got to be to much to manage. My hair tends to be somewhat oily, and when it gets bushy it starts to feel nasty fast.

Plus my old lady always complained for me to cut it.... which I guess ties back into the discussion of "difficulties with partners".

That being said, I'm going to try once more this year. We'll see how I feel about it after Christmas. I do know that my obsession with playing with my hair has caused it to thin in the front. But I've seen a fair number of men with a receding hair line that just comb whats left straight back, and grow it near their shoulders. If I can pull this off, that's the look I'm after. Currently, I comb mine straight back, but it's still so short that once it dries it tends to stick straight up. I rather like the look, however co-workers say I look as though I've stuck my finger in a light socket.

Still.... Einstein had crazy hair! I'd like to have a "do" like his when my hair turns silver. That would rock!

[hairy]

Combing hair over to hide any balding is a big no no, don't do it.

[moonshadow]

Combing hair over to hide any balding is a big no no, don't do it.

No no no, you misunderstand. I'm not talking about a grandpa style comb-over. I'm simply talking about just combing it straight back. Whether or not it combs over any thinning hair is beside the point. Besides, my issue is a slightly receding hairline, in which combing straight back would do nothing for or against anyway. I'm not thinning in the typical area behind the head where most men do.

This is more a matter of not wanting long hair in my eyes, so I'd rather comb it straight back and train it to stay that way. There is a man who works in one of our stores in Vansant who does this and he looks pretty cool IMO.

I was born with a small bald spot right dead center on top of my head, it's just a little larger than a quarter. This is just how I was made. And in school, since you can't wear hats, I got accustomed to the occasional teasing for it, and still get the occasional off remark about it. But, needless to say, I don't have any vanity hair issues. My hair just is what it is. Perhaps that's why I can take wearing a skirt in public so well after such a short time out.... I have experienced nothing worse than what I endured from Kindergarten through middle school.

[Sinned]

ST - I was on my own but still surprised that she consented. She may just have not thought about it. On holiday she kept referring to my sarongs as skirts which I suppose they are but I don't think that she meant it as a compliment. She also said that she dreamed one night that we got divorced because I started wearing dresses so I guess that dresses are out of the question at the moment. I think that with my recent adoption of "female" tops is enough to be going on with at the moment. Don't want to overwhelm her.

As for my hair - it's long, half wy down my back but it's also thinning so I don't have so much of it. I comb it straight back, not to hide the thin spot on top but so I can wear it in a pony tail. When it gets to look ridiculous then I get it cut really short or go completely bald. I have no disillusions of vanity about my hair.

[Gordon]

I have to vent.

I had a full day today with MOH. We did a good bit of shopping. I wore a cream colored denim skirt with an off white kind of flowery designed woman's top. It had no darts however and the style (cut of it) was one that could have been a man's shirt. It was short sleeved and had a collar. The material was a white on white flowery design, very subtle. But it did have little patches between the flower elements that were kind of see though. But in no way did I feel naked or obscene. Before we left in the morning she said "I would rather you wear a different shirt" but then "I can deal". So off we went. Oh and I was wearing women's sandals as well. Not overly feminine looking just simple straps without any embellishments. But they did show off my painted toe nails and toe rings. Oh and I have my fingernails done also.

We went into town to the "art in the park" where local artists sell their wares. We bought a few items. Then we drove to a major shopping mall. I've always wanted to buy some custom designed shoes, and a store there had a display and helped with design and sizing. I've had a very difficult time finds appropriate women's shoes that I would wear in my size (US 13 Wide). Check out Shoes Of Prey at https://www.shoesofprey.com. I ordered a pair of heeled oxfords.

On the way home we stopped for a bite to eat at an Arby's (http://arbys.com). We sat and ate and I could tell she was deep in thought about something troubling her. After 41 years of marriage you can tell these things right? Anyway I opened my mouth and asked. I shouldn't have. Because it all came spilling out. How she didn't like being looked at because of the way her husband dresses. And she wondered why I didn't mind people looking at me that way, etc etc. All stuff we have talked about before and I thought we had gotten beyond. I will admit that I have never worn a female top with her before. I have by myself though. About this time someone sat down at the table next to us, so I told her we need to leave. So off to the car to continue the discussion. I ended up agreeing not to wear a female top with her in the future. I asked her if any other part of my attire upset her and she said no. Just seems like the top put her over the top. Our discussion got into questioning me about my happiness, were there things in my life that I was trying to make up for, and more things along that line. All stuff that we've discussed before. Now I'm wondering if she really is OK with "everything else".

It seems to me that if your OH has issues and then seems to go along that they really aren't going along. They are making do with the situation, and that it will be brought up again. I know that I've had to put up with things about her I don't like and she can readily can see that. But somehow this is different. Argh!

[crfriend]

It seems to me that if your OH has issues and then seems to go along that they really aren't going along. They are making do with the situation, and that it will be brought up again. I know that I've had to put up with things about her I don't like and she can readily can see that. But somehow this is different.

Welcome to the wonderful wacky world of irrationality.

From my experience, men and women approach -- and solve -- problems quite differently. Men will approach a problem head on, fix it or give up on it for a bit, and then forget about it. They don't tend to dwell on things they cannot fix or don't particularly understand knowing full well that they can find out things they don't know or acquire a tool they need to fix the problem later on. Women tend to take a much more roundabout path and altogether too frequently don't solve the problem (in one way or other) to their satisfaction, and then take that and brood on it; the problem then festers. When the "problem" has to do with someone they're in a relationship with, the result looks remarkably like passive-aggressive behaviour as the woman tries to "solve" the "problem" by influence and/or manipulation instead of direct action.

Guys also seem to have a way of ignoring problems that they know they cannot fix; this, I suspect, is a defence-mechanism that keeps them from being driven crazy by the myriad issues they know they can do precisely nothing about (although politics seems to be exempt from this). Unfortunately, that can lay the groundwork for a whole lot of hurt in relationships.

When faced with a problem, a guy will usually ignore it if it's below a certain "threshold of pain"; if it's above that threshold, he will attempt a "fix" a rather direct manner. The "fix" can mean getting out the tools and going to work, or simply stating to another what the problem is, why the other person is causing it, and what the other person can do to mitigate it. The gal, on the other hand, may either defer the mechanical fix to somebody else (ask her SO or hire the problem out, although I've known some remarkably mechanically-adept women), or, in the case of personal issues "drop hints" to the other; these "hints" whilst very powerful in the woman's mind, may well not reach the guy's "threshold of pain" to get immediate attention -- or possibly even an acknowledgement. Here is where the rift starts.

Note that none of this is particularly rational -- on either side. Little problems tend to turn into large ones over time whether it's a roof-leak that turns into a deluge or a little personal thing that's been festering for days/months/week/years/decades. So, we take the woman's tendency to brood on things, couple it with a guy's ability to ignore what he cannot change, and we wind up sitting on a powder-keg. In a roomful of smokers. None of whom who know what an ashtray is for.

Women bring up "problems" that the guy believed were licked years or decades in the past all the time. If the woman continues to perceive something as a problem, she may shut up about it for a bit but it will come back up later, usually at a point in time engineered to do maximum damage (this may be deliberate or not, but looks very much like passive-aggression). In short, unless the "problem" (from the woman's perspective) of a guy appearing "less than masculine" isn't solved, and solved outright, early on that issue will fester and become worse -- not better -- over time. Sadly, it seems, "solving" that problem may frequently involve ditching the relationship if the matter is of the least importance to the man (i.e. above his threshold of pain) as he cannot "fix" her problem without directly causing a painful (life-long?) one for himself; this, as anyone can rationally recognise is a very bad situation indeed.

The above, gleaned from years of personal experience -- sometimes at great pain and personal cost -- is why I hold that it's critical that the partner be fully and whole-heartedly "on board" from Day One. If the partner isn't (from a man's perspective) enthusiastic from the get-go on alternate sartorial styles, then one is entirely likely to step on a land-mine in the relationship sometime in the future due to his own sense of style. This is one reason I rather like the notion of "skirt as 'bozo-filter'"; it weeds potential problems out at the gate rather than waiting to see if trouble lurks in the wings. It's all about openness and honesty; some display those virtues, and some don't.

[Gordon]

How true CRFriend. You are indeed erudite in your lengthy reply to my post. Thank you.

I now have to figure out how to proceed. I hate any kind of relationship problems. It puts knots in my gut and I don't sleep well.

[Sinned]

LGG, Good luck on that - if you find something that works then please spread the word. There are several here who have serious OH problems and we don't have the answers either.