Difficulties with partners

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Sinned
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Post by Sinned »

I wish I could get my wife to believe your last sentence.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Post by STEVIE »

Uncle Al wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:38 pm
Anyway, take your time with your 'partner' and they'll come around to
understand that the general public doesn't care what you're wearing,
as long as you're decent and color coordinated.
Sorry Al but I have to disagree with you.

I must say that my wife of 40 years knows full well that most folks don't care and even approve of my skirts.
She is also aware that my looks are a hell of a lot better coordinated too.
Her attitude is that they are wrong and trousers on men is the only option. Kilts for any sort of every day wear would not be excepted either as one may have expected in Scotland, She will take that attitude to her grave and that is fact.
In any case, what we cannot know is how it will evolve for Mishawakaskirt and his wife.
I'd like to think you may be proven correct in time and Sinned and I pessimistic but only time will tell.
For now we can wish them both well and try to be as realistically supportive as possible.
Steve.
Last edited by denimini on Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed quote formatting
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Post by Coder »

STEVIE wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:03 am
Her attitude is that they are wrong and trousers on men is the only option. Kilts for any sort of every day wear would not be excepted either as one may have expected in Scotland, She will take that attitude to her grave and that is fact.
I find this attitude totally ironic - only because women have the choice of pants and that was won by determination on their part to adopt them as daily wear. I feel like if those are the ground rules, that women must *never* put on a pair of pants as skirts are the only option.

I know that simplistic logic (erm, might not be logic) won’t sway the most adamant pants nazi (too strong? pants Karen?), but for me at least it’s where I would start.

And a related link:

https://www.historyandwomen.com/2012/04 ... s.html?m=1
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Re: Difficulties with partners

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Coder wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:09 pm
......... only because women have the choice of pants and that was won by determination on their part to adopt them as daily wear.
Women today who criticise men wearing skirts and enjoy the choice of wearing pants seem to forget the small number of strong women who won them that choice. Exactly what us few men are doing today breaking with current conventions. In fact I think it was harder for women then, than it is for us now, as we have a long history of wearing unbifurcated garments where women didn't have much of a history of wearing pants.

Granted, some of the strong women had a high public profile which helped and that out of us here one could count on a sawmillers hand.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

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Coder wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:09 pm
I know that simplistic logic (erm, might not be logic) won’t sway the most adamant pants nazi (too strong? pants Karen?), but for me at least it’s where I would start.
It's not logic, per se, but certainly is ethical: What's fair for one should be fair for all. After all, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". Fair play should be fair play. It's called equality.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

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crfriend wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:10 pm
Coder wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:09 pm
I know that simplistic logic (erm, might not be logic) won’t sway the most adamant pants nazi (too strong? pants Karen?), but for me at least it’s where I would start.
It's not logic, per se, but certainly is ethical: What's fair for one should be fair for all. After all, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". Fair play should be fair play. It's called equality.
Yes! That fits much better.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Post by Coder »

Also... please do NOT respond, "Don't be such a pants karen" (although secretly I'd pay to see someone's reaction). Besides being mildly irritating (I find the concept of a "karen" hilarious... but it also isn't nice to think about people that way - sort of like how "soccer mom" or "hillbilly" can be easily thrown about), it's basically doing what we don't want done to us - broad classifications based on one aspect of our entire person.

And yeah - some people revel in being those aforementioned groups - even call themselves such - but when interacting one-on-one I avoid labeling.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Post by JennC03 »

To all the men in this thread.

Us women are complicated, hard headed and driven to empowerment. Most of us women think we're entitled to many things.I'm not one of them but they're some out there. Never let them choose your happiness but learn to find your happiness within yourselves. I'm the type of spouse, friend, daughter, mom ,etc that's very supportive in everything that those I love want to do. When Moon first told me of his skirt wearing I was a bit surprised but encouraged Moon to be who he wants to be.I've become extremely protective over him that if anyone bothers him I'm quick to put them in their place. Why? Because if us woman are allowed to be who we want to be then leave the men a lone for who they're wanting to be. You can't always be in control just because you're a woman and feel it's your right in controlling someone else's life. That's what it truly boils down to.Woman like being in charge and dictating the happiness of men.

When the woman in the relationship can't get what they want they either become hostile or they make all sorts of demands and requests in why these things shouldn't happen or take place.Now I'm not the type of person to judge anyone in fact Moon will tell you I'm furthest from that type.I'm just being brutally honest. Not all women are like this some are extremely laid back and accepting while others have to be in charge.

I could never tell a man how to live their life much less what to wear. I would indeed be a hypocrite considering I wear jeans and pants rather than much skirts currently.That's not to say I don't wear skirts I do but rarely only because I have my own comfort.

So in conclusion: Be fully happy with who you are. Remember they're just clothes and never let anyone dull your sparkle even if they're family or a spouse. I support and love you all. JUST BE YOU! THE WORLD WILL ADJUST ❤
Last edited by JennC03 on Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

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JennC03 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:25 pm
JUST BE YOU! THE WORLD WILL ADJUST
The WORLD might but my wife will not Jenn.
On my part, I'd walk out tomorrow but finance and conscience will not allow it.
Moon is a very lucky man and I am certain he appreciates it.
Thanks for the encouraging words though.
Steve.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

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STEVIE wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:18 pm
JennC03 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:25 pm
JUST BE YOU! THE WORLD WILL ADJUST
The WORLD might but my wife will not Jenn.
On my part, I'd walk out tomorrow but finance and conscience will not allow it.
Moon is a very lucky man and I am certain he appreciates it.
Thanks for the encouraging words though.
Steve.
I will keep you in my Prayers Stevie and my inbox is always available if you need a listening ear.Thanks for the compliments I think we're both the lucky ones to have each other.
“To become the best possible you, you must first focus on becoming a better you.”
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Re: Difficulties with partners

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mishawakaskirt wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:07 pm
I also feel like in the last few years I have developed growing resentment towards women. Tell me if this sounds healthy?

I have already caught myself getting angry at women out in public in jeans, t shirt, and with shorter hair.
And sometimes on occasion even a woman in a skirt. Mostly I just admire their skirt, occasionally
I see and like their skirt, so I think to myself, "I'd so wear that skirt, O wait I can't wear a skirt you can only wear a skirt if you are a woman.

Would you agree im in trouble?

If a skirt or dress is what makes you a woman and jeans and t shirt s is what makes a man.

Then the world is in trouble because there's not many women left if 90 percent of the population wearing pants.
This comment leaped out at me. I want you to know mishawaka that you're NOT alone with these sentiments. I've struggled with these same emotions my entire life. I know exactly how you feel.

In fact, one of the not so obvious reasons I even began to wear skirts was almost out of spite towards the lopsided double-standards of society. I grew up on the tail end of second wave feminism, and for the first 35 years of my life, lived in a world where I was a monster just because I was a man. I would look around and see women be free to do literally anything they want.

I realize now that women didn't have it as easy as I initially thought. I'm not saying my jealousy and bitterness was justified, but I couldn't help the way I felt. I knew I loved the look of skirts, dresses and other feminine attire, but that was a world that was denied to me simply by my anatomy. To rub salt in this wound: I'd observe as (like you say) women were allowed to dress as femininely OR as masculinely as they desired, and you are correct, they have gotten even more "boy like" in recent years. I'm constantly mis-gendering women of all types today.

But yes, while I enjoy overall acceptance with my wife and general acceptance with my family, the issue of the world at large generally shunning me, laughing at me, cussing me out more and more often, while at the same time, the women of the world get a pass to do whatever the hell they want wears thin on my overall morale.

It would be nice if we lived in a world with no double standards, but alas, that's not the human way, and I'm afraid it will never really change.

I wish I could offer you advice, but the fact is, these issues have eaten a sizable hole out of my own soul and I too really don't know what to do about it. Often times I wish I could just box the damned skirts up and just be normal again, but my heart won't let me. I enjoy my sense of personal expression, and to deny myself one of the few pleasures I have in this world I feel would only exacerbate my overall anger and bitterness towards humanity in general. In other words, I appear to be damned if I do and damned if I don't. I've taken a bite of the apple... there's no turning back.

I'm not asking for the world to buddy up to me and be my BFF, I'm not fishing for compliments. I'd be fine if people would just leave me alone, but it seems more and more that's too much to ask. The world is becoming more obnoxious for some reason, and the daily cussings and laughter is taking its toll, I'm getting to where I absolutely hate people.

I don't write about my daily experiences anymore because I don't want to be a "Debbie downer" on the forums, but suffice to say, it's getting pretty bad out here. I don't know why, I can't even begin to speculate.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

Post by denimini »

When enough people do the same thing it is accepted as commonplace. Women wearing pants is considered normal and conventional now because of the numbers. They now feel safe and secure wearing pants. Strong, brave women did the hard yard and now all women (in most countries) enjoy the extra choice within an accepted convention.
Many people feel that to be safe and secure they need to do as others do (and thus suppress their individuality consciously or not) and partners get caught up in this by association.

It is unfortunate that in many places now one has to be brave to be one's self, where it should be accepted as normal to be different.

A person might feel resentful about looks and comments from some other people about their personal choices but I am sure that same person would feel a lot more resentful if they refrained from making those choices.

I don't think we should hope or expect that one day men wearing skirts will be considered normal. It might not happen. We should however have hope that one day, being one's self or being different will be totally accepted.

Try not to expend too much energy being envious, resentful or angry; kindle your hopes and extinguish any expectations.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

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Jenn, thank you for your comments. I'm not sure that it helps me in my situation or Steve in his but knowing that there are supportive women out there is comforting and shows how special you are. I love my wife dearly and she is tolerant of my constant wearing of a skirt in this hot weather but I am conscious of an inherent hostility under the surface.

BTW I was at my checkout the other day watching a woman walk out of the store. She was wearing a dress and the way the hem flowed around as she walked captivated me and always was an added factor in why I wear skirts. Not sure if the hem flows in such a way when I walk ( probably doesn't ) but I would like to think occasionally it does.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

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moonshadow wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:42 pm
Well... I suppose if everyone was fair and reasonable, the world would be very different.

I guess you fellas are just going to have to accept the way your wives are. Many of you have been posting here several years are still report strong opposition. After all this time, if she hasn't yielded yet, she's probably not going to at all in the furture.

I know wearing skirts is socially isolating, many friends and family find it as an embarrassment and don't want to be seen with you when you're wearing one [a skirt]. I guess I can see where they [the women] are coming from....

It's easy for Jenn and I because we have ZERO social life.

"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..."
I agree with the first part but not the last. I have one or two, literally, on my wife's side but we hardly met before and they are not an important part of our life and have not been since. Apart from that family and friends that are active in my and my wife's life are just the same as before they knew I wear skirts. Two were not receptive at the time and we have just let them drift away. They are not relevant to our life. New friends have been made since I wear skirts publicly and I have no trouble with those in my volunteering role or the members of the public I met in that role. I have no problem with interaction with businesses and the one time I did, it was a kitchen supplier and fitter I had the pleasure of taking the process to the point of signing and then turning them down with the reason why. I had great satisfaction and did the job myself. I will not deny I get the odd look of intrigue, even negative outside family and friends but I just ignore them. They are not relevant and they will be the same with others doing anything that they do not agree with. Such negativity is done to many for a variety of aspects in life. Many are socially isolated for a variety of reasons, not just skirts.
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Re: Difficulties with partners

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mishawakaskirt wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:07 pm

I have already caught myself getting angry at women out in public in jeans, t shirt, and with shorter hair.
And sometimes on occasion even a woman in a skirt. Mostly I just admire their skirt, occasionally
I see and like their skirt, so I think to myself, "I'd so wear that skirt, O wait I can't wear a skirt you can only wear a skirt if you are a woman.
You must not go down that road. It is not the fault of other women. I do recall before going public with my skirt wearing expressing my observation of the double standards in society, clothing especially, to my wife in the late 2000's. My wife and I both shared the same concerns about public reaction so in the end I talked to a private Counsellor, I had to go to one for work issues. What she said encouraged me to speak to friends and gain confidence for myself and my wife to cross the barrier of men and skirts and go public. To our surprise the odd looks and only one actual direct rebuttal in a pub by a woman in trousers but I just replied in kind and won. She was very mouthy and opinionated on many subjects before and after and I felt very sorry for her boyfriend at the engagement party but she certainly did not take me on again that evening.

I have not read this entire thread, think I was on it a few years back, but any situation with a man who wants to wear skirts and a wife objects is very difficult to resolve. Gradual reference to the subject may help but as one member has said on this thread, the many men on here whose wives say no and still say no after several years the situation will not change. The decision then is accept the situation and forget skirts, do what you can within the acceptance of the wife's views or a very brutal decision to walk away. What you must not do is become angry at others especially women who can have freedom of choice. As already said on this thread perhaps the main issue here is the many men who will themselves not accept and support men like us by saying and talking, if not actually wearing a skirt, that it is OK for men to venture into the female wardrobe as society allows women to venture into the men's wardrobe, not so long ago not allowed.

Men in situations like you have is not easy to resolve. Thankfully my wife is supportive and acknowledges a man has as much freedom of choice as women demand and expect. That does not help you I know and I wish you all the best but do not become angry. If you are you must make a decision that will not make you angry because eventually this anger could cause trouble for you.
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