Difficulties with partners

[TheSkirtedMan]

I have had extremely few, "objections" or negative responses, from the general public. Indeed, I have had quite a few very positive responses instead. I feel much more comfortable in myself. I find myself becoming more confident and outgoing, much more likely to engage people. It's a rather surprising and very gratifying discovery. It makes me sad that many of you do not have this freedom, I hope it changes for the better..

My experience & sentiments too.

[Gordon]

Reading this thread has prompted me to think about my thoughts about myself. I have to agree that gathering the required "where-with-all" to go out in public skirted has helped me feel better about myself (long long story). I now relish the times when I can wear skirts. It gives me a sense of accomplishment and a sense of self that I haven't felt in a long time. It's helped me realize that the zeal of and for life is for those that grab it by the horns and do it "their way". Insert Frank Sinatra song here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjAnmlEN8rI

I want to thank all of you on this forum for your help and encouragement.

[skirtingtoday]

I don't wish to stir anything up here but I'm thinking about all of you who find things difficult with wife's and partners. I did keep my skirt wearing secret for many years but in the end I was not happy in doing so and felt the strong need to have my wife on my side. I really don't think I'd have been too happy had my wife not excepted my skirt wearing and I'd have felt so unhappy towards her. Yes as some of you remember I did have a few problems within myself but I was determined and got there in the end. Don't some of you feel really stressed at times when your partners won't allow you to be yourselves? I know I would, and it would probably have put a strain on our marriage. I can't help feeling that I'd like to have a chat with some of your partners. I so hope you all get to be yourselves one day.

Hairy, This could have been written for me. (and thanks too for your thoughts)

I do keep my skirt-wearing secret from MOH but would really not wish to continue that way. But it is very difficult at home as she gets a sinking feeling in her stomach such as she felt when there is a death in the family such as her brother when he died (I can, of course, easily understand the latter but not about getting the same feeling regarding my skirt-wearing) ). She also gets "panic attacks" and severe shaking fits sometimes if even the word "skirt" is mentioned in general concersation regardless if it is about men wearing them or not!

Because of these stressful signs and feelings she has, I feel that I can never approach her about even wearing a skirt in the house or anywhare else for that matter, without setting her off.

I think she has a real irrational fear about "her man" becoming effeminate even though I would reassure her that that isn't the case - I don't think she would believe me even though all I would ever consider wearing (from the other side of the store) is skirts and/or tights. i.e. not into dresses - (think gorilla!) - nor nail polish or ear-rings or bras, though I have worn one a couple of times for bedroom "fun" but never beyond that. Nor would I want to expand on that limitations which is as far as I would wish to go. I just would like to be a litle eccentric at times, very occasionally, and not get clobbered for it!

Indeed, I have little "fun" in the house and do say to her on occasions, "Of course, I know that I am not allowed to have any fun." which she patently ignores.

I am not allowed to wear skirts in the house but I can wear tights oddly enough, which is accepted if not actually fully supported.

Her answer to the obvious statement/question, "If women can wear trousers, why can't men wear skirts?", is that women can wear trousers because they are WOMEN's trousers, designed for WOMEN. I thought that if I bought a UK, a kilt-like garment (or "skirt" for want of a better word, designed for MEN, that she would accept that but all I got was a frown, a panic attack, a shake of the head and a firm, "NO!" as a response.

Whilst I hope one day that I can be myself, to even to be "allowed" to wear skirt in my own home, sadly I don't see it ever happening!

[dillon]

I guess I am not clear on what you mean by "allowed". You are not a child or a pet. Does she physically prevent you from wearing what you please? Or is it that you are perhaps so averse to conflict or confrontation that you don't assert yourself? I am generally easy-going, but I am not a submissive type, so it's very hard for me to relate to this. I certainly would find it a strange relationship in which there is no compromise or negotiation of something that is important to one half of the couple, but, of course, I don't know your situation. I might try, somehow, to find a way to explain your feelings to her, rather than to keep something so benign and harmless closeted away. It is one thing to treat her fears/concerns with sensitivity, and another to capitulate to an irrational prohibition.

[crfriend]

I guess I am not clear on what you mean by "allowed". You are not a child or a pet. Does she physically prevent you from wearing what you please? Or is it that you are perhaps so averse to conflict or confrontation that you don't assert yourself?

The dynamics of long-term relationships can sometimes be very confusing, and I suspect that much of that is not wanting to "rock the boat" too much or otherwise "injure" the other party out of a sense of love. This can result in powerful asymmetries arising in the relationship which can seriously compromise the very viability of same unless the "submissive" partner continues to submit. In the purest sense, it's domestic abuse, but since it's psychological rather than physical, nobody bothers to take notice that it happens. Psychological scars do not manifest as plainly for all the world to see as physical ones do. If a woman shows up with physical scars she's pitied and the man gets the blame; if a man shows up with psychological scars done to him by the woman, he's told to "man up" and "get over it".

Women win in these situations virtually 100% of the time, as the nature of the asymmetry is almost always in the woman's favour. The only way for the man to break that pattern is, altogether too frequently, to leave -- and in marital situations the costs of doing that can be very high indeed. So the guy plods on, head down, and hopes for the best.

[Big and Bashful]

I have just settled for the simple life, two cats who don't seem to mind, no wife to object to my life choices, the only person to object is myself and my own limits! It works for me!

[dillon]

I guess I am not clear on what you mean by "allowed". You are not a child or a pet. Does she physically prevent you from wearing what you please? Or is it that you are perhaps so averse to conflict or confrontation that you don't assert yourself?

The dynamics of long-term relationships can sometimes be very confusing, and I suspect that much of that is not wanting to "rock the boat" too much or otherwise "injure" the other party out of a sense of love.
Women win in these situations virtually 100% of the time, as the nature of the asymmetry is almost always in the woman's favour. The only way for the man to break that pattern is, altogether too frequently, to leave -- and in marital situations the costs of doing that can be very high indeed. So the guy plods on, head down, and hopes for the best.

That I can understand, of course, but then, to be clear, the "rule" NOT to wear a skirt in public, or even in the privacy of his own home, is self-imposed by his own choice. Personally, if it was my situation, I would state it that way before I would I would suggest that I had to obtain permission. The latter way seems very emasculating and transfers blame in a way that seems improbable.

I'm not encouraging anyone to leave a spouse; I'm merely saying that if the desire for liberation and to express one's inner self-image is really important, then perhaps one should be more persistent, even poignant, in articulating those feelings. If no one encourages the spouse to reexamine her beliefs and opinions, and regard the effect her beliefs have on her husband, for whom she presumably cares, then no change will ever come. And if she does not care for her husband's feelings, then there may be more serious issues to resolve in the relationship. It won't be easy for either of them. The husband has to find a way to express to her the importance of his freedom to choose, which includes some sort of answer to the question "Why?", and that requires self-reflection which men often do poorly. And for the wife's part, she has to overcome or at least suppress confusion and embarrassment; pride can be a terribly big pill to swallow.

I just regard skirting alone and out of sight as not particularly healthy, either for a man's emotional well-being or for his marriage, having once been there myself, and having suffered similar guilt, fear, and anxiety. Thankfully, I finally found the resolve to address my situation, and, though not perfect, it has worked for the better. I just got to the point where I was depressed by the sensation that I was waiting for some change that I was not actively pursuing, as if waiting for some liberation, as if waiting for life to start, and hamstrung by constraints of my own making. I had always done the right thing, but not for myself; always the right thing as someone else saw it. When you reach a certain age, it's time to be honest with yourself and your spouse, and figure out what your co-existence is about. If you have long given, and continue to give, to a relationship, it is not unreasonable to expect the compassion of your partner.

Without question, there is a fluid balance to be struck between one's personal liberty and dignity, and one's consideration for the effect on one's spouse. But compromise, and accepting change, are pretty much implied in those marriage vows.

[Gordon]

Dillon that was very well said.

[denimini]

Skirtingtoday, you clearly have the confidence to wear skirts in public and have given me much encouragement but unfortunately your partner seems has an intense fear of not conforming to society norms. You obviously care enough for her to deny your own desires and it could be argued that this should work both ways, however her fear can be an overwhelming thing. I was surprised the man's kilt aproach did not work but it might be a case of anything that is not the commonly accepted behaviour.
Rather that immediately trying to resolve the skirt wearing issue, work on some small shared excercises of breaking the mould that shows that going against the crowd is not so scary and can be satifying. There must be something that she has an more independent thought about that could be persued.
Many things in our society, through life, encourages and reinforces conformity and it is no surprise that many people have difficulty breaking away from this. It might be just one incident in a person's life that has a lifelong influence on later behaviour.
I was going to suggest growing a beard to allay her fear of you becoming feminine but the singer Conchita Wurst has blown that tactic out of the water.
There is much written, here are a couple:
http://gmwilliams.hubpages.com/hub/Peop ... to-Conform
http://www.plannersearch.org/life-event ... he%20Crowd
Good luck, Anthony

[denimini]

I must say that this thread does bring some sadness to me; the torment that some of you are going through and the reminder of my loss - Heather, my partner who bought me my first mini skirt.

[skirtingtoday]

I guess I am not clear on what you mean by "allowed". You are not a child or a pet. Does she physically prevent you from wearing what you please? Or is it that you are perhaps so averse to conflict or confrontation that you don't assert yourself? .... I might try, somehow, to find a way to explain your feelings to her, rather than to keep something so benign and harmless closeted away. It is one thing to treat her fears/concerns with sensitivity, and another to capitulate to an irrational prohibition.

Perhaps "allowed" is my interpretation. I am indeed averse to confrontation as that is exactly what will happen if I do wear a skirt at all. It would result in a "discussion" from her viewpoint but a verbal onslaught, little of it complementary, from my viewpoint. So I prefer to keep the peace and do my own thing. I agree it is a quite harmless and benign activity and I cannot really understand why she is so objectionable to the idea.

Skirtingtoday, you clearly have the confidence to wear skirts in public and have given me much encouragement but unfortunately your partner seems has an intense fear of not conforming to society norms. You obviously care enough for her to deny your own desires and it could be argued that this should work both ways, however her fear can be an overwhelming thing. I was surprised the man's kilt aproach did not work but it might be a case of anything that is not the commonly accepted behaviour....

There is much written, here are a couple:
http://gmwilliams.hubpages.com/hub/Peop ... to-Conform
http://www.plannersearch.org/life-event ... he%20Crowd
Good luck, Anthony

Anthony, Thanks for confirming that I may have helped you somewhat in your progress.
I think you have also hit the nail on the head. Her fear is indeed to not appear to be at all "not conforming to society norms" and dreads others finding out and her then losing her friends because of it. I too was surprised and was set back on my heels at the rejection of the man's kilt approach too
As I have a second (a black) UK, as opposes to the beige one she does know about, I might try that as a future approach but feel I know what the answer is before I start.

Those two links you sent are good reading as well - I'll digest them more at my leisure.

And Carl, you too have some very telling words and so true as well. I have little fondness of rocking the boat and to not "injure" her even though I cannot really understand why except that it isn't a "normal" guy thing to do. She puts herself under extreme pressure to get herself and all around her to comply with "sociatal norms". To an extent, I would concur that it is a form of psychological "domestic abuse" and I have already found quite a number of web-sites that expound on that - but in her opinion, I am the one with the problem!

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments.

Ross

[crfriend]

I was going to suggest growing a beard to allay her fear of you becoming feminine but the singer Conchita Wurst has blown that tactic out of the water.

That name can't be for real. I don't have a Spanish/English dictionary handy, but even I know that "wurst" is German for "sausage" and that one's just too over the top for me.

There is much written, here are a couple:
http://gmwilliams.hubpages.com/hub/Peop ... to-Conform
http://www.plannersearch.org/life-event ... he%20Crowd

Those were good, and thanks for posting them! The one about investing had some very interesting gems in it concerning the areas of the brain that get activated under certain circumstances. It make one wonder how the real visionaries go about things without simply collapsing under the weight of expectation.

[skirtyscot]

They train themselves not to, I suppose. "When everyone is buying, sell", that sort of thing. And after a while they no doubt find it easy.

[Sinned]

Just as an aside on the difficulties with partners. You all know that MOH has at times problems with me wearing skirts. I still get the sarky comments about wearing one every night but when it's hot at work and I have been wearing trousers all day it's a relief to get into something comfortable and cool. Anyway it was MOH's birthday the other day and she received a birthday card made by our grandchildren and on the front is a picture of the two of us and we are shown both wearing skirts! I would take that as a positive but the way MOH told me I'm not so sure that she thought so.

[Tor]

I read the investor link, and have the other one up to read. Thanks for posting that one.

While we're on the subject of conforming to the crowd, here's a (kind of tangential) link to a fun tale I think some of you will enjoy. Bestseller Hoax of the Century

Carl, I suspect, especially for the older visionaries, they for one reason or another, are highly internally referenced, at least in the areas that matter. From the psycology reading I've done I'm pretty sure I tend towards being internally referenced. Unfortunately for me, it seems I somehow squashed my sense of fashion very early (seemingly a sense that what I wanted was unavailable or wrong) with external referencing, such that I got only extremely rare flashes of admitting to myself what I wanted for far too long. The result being a wardrobe consisting mostly of duplicates of one thing varying by colour alone - with noticable changes once or twice a decade. Clothes would go from "Nice" to "Normal Wear" to "Work Clothes".