Miss-gendering & misgendering

[Barefoot Joe]

Since I started wearing skirts, which is just about six months ago, I have never been mistaken for a woman but I wouldn't expect it anyway because my upper half is far from being feminine. But like some of you I also noticed that people are more friendly and I very well remember the warm feeling when, for the first time ever, a guy jumped to open a door for me. Some girl part in me started cheering and ran for the champagne...

[Kilted Musician]

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[skirtingtoday]

KM,
When I was at University and at the weekend disco, i have been tapped on the shoulder by a guy a few times only fot him to back off when he realised that I was a bloke - this was well before any skirt-wearing but whwn my hair was a few inches past shoulder length. Yup, they were embarrassed.

Another time I was on a bus and noticed a slim-built person sitting a few seats in fron of me and from the back, had light brown/blonde waist-length hair, silk blouse with drainpipe denims and I wondered what "she" looked like from the front. When "she" turned round sporting a goatee beard and thick side-burns, was I glad I hadn't made a fool of myself!

[pelmut]

A new one for me this evening: I asked one of the staff in a supermarket where I could find a particular product, he replied, "There are some in the 'reduced' section in aisle 3 sir...". I may have unintentionally looked a little disappointed at being "Sir-ed" because he then glanced down at my skirt, froze for a moment with a look of embarrasment, recovered and said "...Um..there are some in the 'reduced' section in aisle 3". I didn't react to the mis-mis-gendering, but just thanked him and headed off to grab the bargains in aisle 3.

Another member of staff was with him and overheard, so I expect that incident will get chewed over in the staff room later.

[crfriend]

Another member of staff was with him and overheard, so I expect that incident will get chewed over in the staff room later.

The way I see this is that the staff member called it the way he saw it (and there can hardly be any fault found with that so long as he was polite), and we can hope that he won't get chewed out over it.

[pelmut]

Another member of staff was with him and overheard, so I expect that incident will get chewed over in the staff room later.

The way I see this is that the staff member called it the way he saw it (and there can hardly be any fault found with that so long as he was polite),

He was perfectly polite and 'corrected' what he thought was his mistake immediately. In retrospect, I felt a bit sorry for confusing him.

and we can hope that he won't get chewed out over it.

Sorry, I should have spotted that the expression could mean something a lot stronger in American than it does in UK English. I only meant that the staff would probably exchange some amused banter about it.

[crfriend]

He was perfectly polite and 'corrected' what he thought was his mistake immediately. In retrospect, I felt a bit sorry for confusing him.

Isn't it amazing how creeping Political Correctness can stick its nose into places that nobody would have ever imagined. I suspect, but obviously cannot prove, that the poor guy fought with his own thoughts for a moment while trying to recall the "Company Line".

Sorry, I should have spotted that the expression could mean something a lot stronger in American than it does in UK English. I only meant that the staff would probably exchange some amused banter about it.

As the old saying goes, "no harm, no foul". Yes, there will likely be some ribbing going on about it behind the scenes. So long as everybody acquitted themselves well in public, that's what matters, and it sounds like that's what happened.

Personally, I'd have thanked the chap and mentioned that "Sir" is quite fine, although getting called "Sir" still makes me think of my father instead of myself.

[dillon]

Another member of staff was with him and overheard, so I expect that incident will get chewed over in the staff room later.

The way I see this is that the staff member called it the way he saw it (and there can hardly be any fault found with that so long as he was polite),

He was perfectly polite and 'corrected' what he thought was his mistake immediately. In retrospect, I felt a bit sorry for confusing him.

and we can hope that he won't get chewed out over it.

Sorry, I should have spotted that the expression could mean something a lot stronger in American than it does in UK English. I only meant that the staff would probably exchange some amused banter about it.

Maybe I misread this but I didnt see what mistake he made. You are a "Sir", aren't you? He merely omitted the gender identifying address. I don't see a mistake.

[moonshadow]

I've known a lot of grown men who actually get ill when they are called "Sir". I'm not really sure why, I think it has something to do with them wanting to feel younger. Personally, I always thought of "Sir" as very formal and polite.

Yet at the same time, every once in a while some kid calls me "Sir", and I can't help but feel a little put off by it.... because, now that I think about it, it does make me feel like an old fart.... being called sir by a bunch of kids... gheesh... It's not like when someone at a checkout counter calls me sir... no it's different.

[pelmut]

He was perfectly polite and 'corrected' what he thought was his mistake immediately. In retrospect, I felt a bit sorry for confusing him.

Maybe I misread this but I didnt see what mistake he made.

He didn't make a mistake, but he mistakenly believed that he had made one. His behaviour in such confusing circumstances was perfectly correct.

You are a "Sir", aren't you? He merely omitted the gender identifying address.

I don't know if I am a "Sir", does the title go with sex or with gender? As far as I know, this has never been made clear. If is applies to sex, it might be possible for someone to hazard a guess with a reasonable chance of success; but the only reliable way to discover a person's gender is to ask them (and even then they may be unsure themselves). In my own case, I don't mind which title they use - it is interesting to see how I am perceived according to the circumstances.

As neither sex nor gender should matter when asking for products in a supermarket, the best way is to omit the "Sir" or "Madam", then they can't get it wrong.

[dillon]

I suppose I'd say that, in the eyes of a stranger,"Sir" would go with the apparent sex characteristics. It would be unfair to chastize someone from acting on natural socialized habit. He isn't a mind reader, after all, and could not really guess anyone's gender identity, especially if it is not expressed clearly by immediate visual cues. If we ask for a tolerant society, we need to lead by example. It seems a small enough thing that it should simply be overlooked.

[pelmut]

I suppose I'd say that, in the eyes of a stranger,"Sir" would go with the apparent sex characteristics. It would be unfair to chastize someone from acting on natural socialized habit. He isn't a mind reader, after all, and could not really guess anyone's gender identity, especially if it is not expressed clearly by immediate visual cues. If we ask for a tolerant society, we need to lead by example. It seems a small enough thing that it should simply be overlooked.

I didn't react overtly to it, but I was slightly surprised because I am so often seen as female nowdays and he may have subconsciously picked up on that. I pretended not to notice his correction and I wasn't the least bit upset by anything that occurred - merely intrigued at the underlying confusion it betrayed.

I expect part of their training has been to address customers as "Sir" or "Madam", although I have never been aware of that degree of formality in this supermarket before. This was an apparently senior employee who was with a young girl who might have been a junior trainee under his supervision, so he may have been intending to set her an example - in which case it would be interesting to know if he suggests a revision of the company's gender-awareness policy in the light of his experience.

[Couya]

Since "Sir" & "Madam" were introduced by white Europeans, would you also be frightened of using the words to someone with ancestors from another continent?
Or do you think there should be special word for each race * ? And why not for each gender * ?
Why make things easy, when you can make them difficult?
Could be very difficult since neither of these concepts ( * ) has ever been acceptably defined.

Martin

[Judah14]

Since "Sir" & "Madam" were introduced by white Europeans, would you also be frightened of using the words to someone with ancestors from another continent?
Or do you think there should be special word for each race * ? And why not for each gender * ?
Why make things easy, when you can make them difficult?
Could be very difficult since neither of these concepts ( * ) has ever been acceptably defined.

Martin

Here in the Philippines we also use "Sir" and "Madam" even though we are not white Europeans, though we also use the Filipino counterparts ("Ginoo" and "Ginang").

[Darryl]

My standard reply some years back was: "don't call me sir, I work for a living."

Dictionary.com : noun
1 a respectful or formal term of address used to a man:
No, sir.
2. (initial capital letter) the distinctive title of a knight or baronet:
Sir Walter Scott.
3. (initial capital letter) a title of respect for some notable personage of ancient times:
Sir Pandarus of Troy.
4. a lord or gentleman:
noble sirs and ladies.
5. an ironic or humorous title of respect:
sir critic.
6. Archaic. a title of respect used before a noun to designate profession, rank, etc.:
sir priest; sir clerk.

I'm soft-spoken, so I've been "ma'am-ed" on the phone every so often. My name can go either way, but usually if they can see me I get "sir-ed" if anything. I was one time walking into the local bank and saw a guy with a walker, so I opened the door and held it for him and his wife. I was standing just back of the door and I guess he saw the skirt and jumped the gun with "ma'am" and hurriedly amended it to "sir" once he got a step or two further out. No big deal.

Have also had a guy come into the public restroom and see me, back up a couple of steps and check the sign on the door again before coming in.