Dress Code Problems

[Davy]

I was away for the past 2 weeks and managed to spend well over half the time wearing skirts. I also managed to get reprimanded twice for violating "dress codes". Neither time would they say exactly what the problem was, and in both cases I was in a bit of a hurry, so I didn't attempt to question them on anything; I just got the heck out of there as fast as I could. As soon as I got home I filed complaints with both organizations, demanding an explanation as to why I was singled out. We'll see if I get any response.

What was particularly galling is that one of the reprimands occurred while on tour at an Ivy League college noted for its "diversity" and "respect for all peoples and lifestyles". Hah! Obviously respect for all people and lifestyles doesn't include men wearing skirts. I noted this in my complaint; I am very curious as to how they will respond to this (if they even do respond).

[couyalair]

Reprimanded?
From your words it is difficult to know whether your visits were official or not. Unless you were a tourist visiting a mosque or perhaps a cathedral, I can't see where else it could be against the rules to show some leg. On the other hand, if you were on some more formal or business excursion, then I suppose your "superiors" have the right to voice their requirements.
Whatever the stituation, good for you to have lodged a complaint about the case.
I hope you get some replies -- and perhaps even an apology, who knows?

Martin

[Davy]

No, my visits were not in any way "official". In fact, at the college, the security guard acted like I was somehow trespassing to be walking through their campus. First she demanded to know what business I had on campus. When I said I had taken an earlier tour and was now just visiting, she demanded to know who I was visiting. I repeatedly asked if there was any problem, and she never answered yeh or nay. Of course I am surmising that the problem was related to my skirt, but I cannot imagine any other possible issues. And to compound the scene, after she drove off and while I was heading for the exit and back to my car I noticed another campus security truck tailing me. Obviously they had been called by the first guard. This time I did stop and approach them, asking what the problem was, but they would not answer. Real weird. So I left as quickly as I could.

[ChrisM]

Davy you are welcome to come to our University in a skirt. You may get some looks, but you will not be tailed by Security. Or at least, they don't tail me.

(But maybe that's because I am faculty? LOL - I doubt it!)

[Since1982]

Who exactly was harrassing you about your "un-bifurcated" wear? Unless you were in a jail or other official place like a Court room or Police station IN the USA harrassing you for your clothing that is NOT showing nakedness, you should report them to Government officials immediately for going against your legal rights of what you can wear in public.

[STEVIE]

Hi Davy,
You have some symapathies from me, long ago I encoumtered a similar situation but that was wth the Scottish police.
However, were you told directly that the problem was your skirts?
Remember, we live in an age when "difference is perceived as potential threat".
I'm not condoning your treatment nor' can I comment on American legalities but you were outside their experience and they reacted accordingly. Security Guards the world over are not renowned for creative thinking and we are way outside the "box".
It will be interesting to hear how the authorities respond to you.
I hope you're not deterred.
Steve.

[Davy]

However, were you told directly that the problem was your skirts?

Definitely not in either case. As I indicated in my 2'nd post, I am only presuming the problem was related to my skirt. And Since1982, I definitely intend to report them if I do not get a satisfactory response and some sort of apology.

I feel an obligation to each organization to allow them to do whatever investgation they are inclined to do and respond to my complaint before jumping to any conclusions. That is why I have not named either of them here. But if I do not get a satisfactory response, then I do intend to pursue further action. I am not sure what makes sense at this point; I am far more annoyed at the college than the other organization simply because of the hypocrisy of the college broadcasting all over its website about how "diversity tolerant" they are. If it was Joe's bar and grill, I would expect treatment like this and be less inclined to complain. So I intend to wait a few weeks and then decide what to do next.

Thanks for all your replies and concern.

[crfriend]

I feel an obligation to each organization to allow them to do whatever investgation they are inclined to do and respond to my complaint before jumping to any conclusions. That is why I have not named either of them here.

That's wise and shows remarkable restraint -- bravo!

I am far more annoyed at the college than the other organization simply because of the hypocrisy of the college broadcasting all over its website about how "diversity tolerant" they are. If it was Joe's bar and grill, I would expect treatment like this and be less inclined to complain.

Things, very often, are not what they may seem. I've been in more bars whilst skirted than one can shake a stick at and I've not come in for much grief at all. It's quite the opposite, in fact; I've found that the vast majority of folks, when presented "in person" with somebody that bends the rules in a non-threatening way who is also approachable are quite open to the idea of alternatives to trousers. I'd almost expect an organisation to be rather more rigid than a general cross-section of the population -- companies need rules and regulations even more than general society to keep the power-structure intact.

So I intend to wait a few weeks and then decide what to do next.

Please keep us informed.

[Kirbstone]

A very cogent observation, Carl, your last statement about companies keeping their power structure intact. I'd add religious organisations to that, particularly the hierarchy in the Catholic Church who put themselves first and ignored the welfare of abused children. Despite the Global exposures I expect they're still at it.

Sore subject and probably a bit off-topic.

T.

[howardh]

Tonight, Saturday -busiest night of the week - I was not allowed into a pub in Bolton (UK) because I was wearing shorts and trainers. 9.35pm in the evening, and there were a total of two customers sat in the bar, and three staff + one bouncer.
*Black Cat Inn*
So I went to the bar opposite, where there is no dresscode whatsoever, and they would have been perfectly happy if I showed up in a leather mini with fishnets. Three-deep at the bar, they were. In fact the barman - who knows me from another pub - actually asked why I was in shorts and not a skirt!
The world is full of knobheads who think they know what they're doing. Happily, they go bust.

[crfriend]

[...] Three-deep at the bar, they were. In fact the barman - who knows me from another pub - actually asked why I was in shorts and not a skirt!

I'd call that recognition an all-up win, and two thumbs up! It is good to be known. He probably also knew what you like to drink. I like being able to walk into a bar and by the time my backside is down my favourite tipple is waiting for me (save Guinness -- that takes a while to properly "build").

The world is full of knobheads who think they know what they're doing. Happily, they go bust.

Ain't that a fact! (And screw my old school-marm English teachers who hammered it into my head that (1) "ain't" isn't a word and (2) to never start a sentence with "And". Foo to the lot of you!)

[couyalair]

You should have left your trainers at home, Howardh. Try sandals instead -- far healthier.

Martin

[howardh]

You should have left your trainers at home, Howardh. Try sandals instead -- far healthier.

We're talking Britain in the middle of July, a full, whopping 13c yesterday evening. Sandals? Wellies more like

[Davy]

Wow, I completely forgot I never followed up on this.

1. The first organization eventually responded, and said there had been several complaints about my attire and they were only responding to the complaints, and they sort-of apologized, but said when there was more than one complaint they were obligated to do something. Lots of BS; you know, all that stuff about "protecting the kids" that so often masquerades for concern, when there isn't any real reason. But this was a venue frequented by kids, and while I am sure no child actually complained, this attituide is quite commonplace.

2. This was at Vassar College, and was clearly the most galling, given their reputation. Several months went by and I had to e-mail them a second time before getting any response at all. I then got a very nice, apologetic email from some "diversity office" or some such crazy place saying they had forwarded my complaint to the head of security. Then, the same day I got an email from the head of security. (Obviously he had received my original complaint way back, and had already investigated, but did not have the courtesy to reply to me.) Apparently someone had complained, and they sent an officer out to investigate me. Then he claimed the officer had asked me for my ID, and I had refused to show it to her. He even claimed the second officer had also asked for ID, and insisted that if I had shown either officer my ID they would have left me alone. Completely false; no one ever asked to see any ID, all they asked was what business I had being on campus. I reported all this back to the original office, and they were somewhat sympathetic, but obviously could take no action, given that this ultimately boiled down to a "he said - she said" situation. She did assure me I was welcome to visit the campus any time I wished.

[crfriend]

1. The first organization eventually responded, and said there had been several complaints about my attire and they were only responding to the complaints, and they sort-of apologized, but said when there was more than one complaint they were obligated to do something. Lots of BS; you know, all that stuff about "protecting the kids" that so often masquerades for concern, when there isn't any real reason. But this was a venue frequented by kids, and while I am sure no child actually complained, this attituide is quite commonplace.

In other words, it was officious "well-meaning" types that pushed the apple-cart over. Simpletons.

2. This was at Vassar College, and was clearly the most galling, given their reputation. Several months went by and I had to e-mail them a second time before getting any response at all.

That's absolutely grounds for getting frosted. I'd expect that at Alabama or Mississippi State but not anywhere in the Northeast. I hope you did your cogent best to give them the flaming that they absolutely deserved. A bloke in a skirt is not a threat to "security" or "safety" -- or even "decency". Some "little Eichmann" was out of line.

I'd have mentioned that the campus is now considered a "no-go" zone for its observed behaviours. (And, by inference, would be considered such when recommending "higher" education to one's children or peers' children for said behaviours. Hit 'em where it hurts; even better, do some research and pull any investments that their endowment gambles on.)

I'm still on a slow boil from somebody calling "Human Resources" about me and my skirts a number of years ago when said individual used their imagination to see things they could not have and I got a "talking to" about it. It's OK for gals to get strongly backlit when not wearing slips (a shot of the Princess of Wales comes to mind) and yet it's not for guys. I remain unamused, although laughter was had between my boss at the time -- who had to confront me on the matter -- and whom I offered to show my undergarments to as proof that the complaint was without merit.

I suppose that the moral here is that no matter how "advanced" or "forward thinking" places are there will remain simpletons who don't "get" the modern world and would be much happier back in the "Dark Ages" (where we're going -- again -- even if lots of folks are trying to put the brakes on).