New terminology related to MUG wearing?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby Raakone » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:11 pm

Hey there. Been thinking of ideas for terminology we should coin...if any of you have any comments, or additions, please add. I'll start with two...

"What's the Point?" AKA "Need to Remind them You're a Man": A Term for wearing some kind of skirt, robe or dress with shorts or pants that are not only underneath, but very obviously visible (a few months ago there was that French man's skirt design that has matching shorts of equal length attached, that would fall under this)

"The Gash Bell Effect": Being able to wear a skirt, sarong, dress or robe without drawing all kinds of attention. In the Japanese cartoon Konjiki No Gash Bell (known as Zatch Bell in the dubbed version), the main character, Gash Bell (or Zatch Bell) walks around most of the time in what's essentially a trapeze dress (that's what someone told me that style is called).....but NOBODY seems to comment on this. Even more surprisingly he's in Japan most of the time ("The nail that stands out gets hammered down") But nobody seems to notice that this boy in an unconventional outfit...is in an unconventional outfit. http://zatchbell-fanclub.deviantart.com ... D-36957396 for a fan pic of Zatch/Gash. Right, I understand they assume he's a human boy (he's actually of one of the many subraces of some kind of demon....or "Mamodo" in the English version), but.....if all men in skirts or dresses can achieve the "Gash Bell" effect, it would be wonderful.
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby steve66oh » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:21 pm

How about this:
"nude" - has its traditional meaning, a body without clothing.
"naked" - could refer to a male body in any state of dress that does not include a MUG. In other words, conventional menswear is invisible (and it makes its wearer fade to invisibility in a crowd) - and if nobody "sees" your clothes, you look naked...

Q: "Did you wear a skirt today?"
A: "No, I went to work naked."
Q: "Didn't that raise a few eyebrows at least?"
A: "No, everyone else was naked too."
"My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the armies of the north, general of the Felix Legions. Loyal servant to the true Emperor...." (said the man in the skirt..)
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby Grok » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:34 pm

Actually, I prefer the term "drab" for traditional menswear.
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby crfriend » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:44 pm

I rather like using the term "mundane" as it has a nice "Harry Potter" reference which is at a stroke condescending and conciliatory. "They're mundanes -- they can't help it."
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby Grok » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:50 pm

In science fiction fandom the word "mundane" is used in a similar manner...as a label for less imaginative people.
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby Grok » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:50 pm

One thing I've been wondering...is there any language that has a gender neutral term for skirts? The English word "skirt" is definitely associated with females/feminimity. I mean as a generic term, as specific designs have specific names, such as kilts, sarongs, etc.
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby crfriend » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:41 pm

I'd like to note that I am not "having a go" at the previous poster with this. Some of my previous commentary was so construed incorrectly.
Grok wrote:One thing I've been wondering...is there any language that has a gender neutral term for skirts? The English word "skirt" is definitely associated with females/feminimity.

There are two ways to look at this question. One is directly related to language structure and the other is common usage or idiom.

Very strictly speaking, English is a non-gendered language, quite unlike, say, French which confines certain words into "masculine" and "feminine" (e.g. "chat" (cat) is feminine and "chien" (dog) is masculine), so fundamentally there is no connotation one way or the other. German retains the masculine/feminine structure but also adds a "neuter" structure. I'm not sure what the "gender" of the French word for "skirt" is, nor do I happen to have the German word (and gender for it) either. Note that both English and French require disambiguation for both dogs and cats -- that's why we have "queen" and "tomcat" for felines and "b1tch" and "dog" (see why hate nanny-filters so?) for canines.

Idiomatically, "skirt" in English usage -- as applied to clothing -- does have a distinctly "feminine" bias to it, but that's because the culture views skirts as women's garments pretty much exclusively. However, the term has usage outside clothing, and in that use is entirely gender-neutral; desks have skirts that cover the area behind the central drawer that'd otherwise be open, and rockets (it's hard to get more phallic than that) have skirts where a change in stack-diameter is made.

So, linguistically it's a mixed bag.

I mean as a generic term, as specific designs have specific names, such as kilts, sarongs, etc.

We could lump entries like "circle-skirts", "maxi-skirts", "A-line skirts" and whatnot into the same bucket as those terms all describe construction or design (much the same was as "sarong" or "kilt").

My thrust here is that we're not dealing with the vagaries of language so much as we're dealing with the vagaries of idiom. Note the difference between, "I wore a skirt to work today." (making the assumption that the speaker/writer is a guy) and "Part of the second-stage skirt tore away and aerodynamic forces tore the stack apart requiring Range-Safety to destroy it." The former is specifically calling out clothing whereas the second is not. Why does one make anybody cringe more than the other (although, personally, I'd cringe far more at the latter than the former)?
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby beachlion » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:58 pm

FYI, in german, a skirt is der Rock and is masculine. In french a skirt is la jupe and is feminine. In spanish it is la falda and that is feminine too.
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby couyalair » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:28 pm

Unless things have officially been changed somehow, "sex" is a term used in biology and "gender" is used in grammar.
Whatever you may say over the Atlantic, Europeans do try to keep things separate. I've noticed that Northamericans have taken to using the word "gender" when we would talk about "sex".

Thus "ein Rock" is masculine in German but often worn by females. "Une veste" is feminine in French but often worn by males. "Ein Mädchen" is neuter, and refers to a female. A Roman male could work on the land as "agricola" or on the seas as "nauta", words with a typically feminine form, but few females followed their example. "Kilt is neuter in English, but "jupe écossaise" and "falda escocesa" are both feminine.

Grammar and biology are not linked, just as clothes do not determine sexuality (or vice versa).

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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby crfriend » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:44 pm

couyalair wrote:Unless things have officially been changed somehow, "sex" is a term used in biology and "gender" is used in grammar.

Which is actually what I was driving at in my prior missive.
Whatever you may say over the Atlantic, Europeans do try to keep things separate. I've noticed that Northamericans have taken to using the word "gender" when we would talk about "sex".

That's likely down to the increasing awareness that we, as a species, are not necessarily defined by what's betwixt our legs -- be that for better or worse -- and the language hasn't quite "caught up".

A Roman male could work on the land as "agricola" or on the seas as "nauta", words with a typically feminine form, but few females followed their example. "Kilt is neuter in English, but "jupe écossaise" and "falda escocesa" are both feminine.

Of course for the "Romance languages" it all goes back to Latin, but my Latin is both fragmentary and quite stale so I make do with what I know of modern languages. Thanks for the link-back!
Grammar and biology are not linked, just as clothes do not determine sexuality (or vice versa).

That. For the win.
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby Grok » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:54 pm

:idea: I propose that we adopt the term "open ended garments." This term would include garments that hang from the shoulders as well as the waist.
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby crfriend » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:47 pm

I'm rather taken with Couylair's term of "open garment" and have more or less adopted it. "Open ended" is slightly redundant as tubes are almost always open at the ends, and what we're speaking of is a garment that's open (to the ground, for both legs) at the hemline. It may not be strictly a "tube" topologically, but rather a variant of some sort (e.g. a cone), but the analogy still holds as a pencil-skirt with either pleats or a walking-slit is "open" in the same way that an A-line skirt is. Too, "open-ended" is overloaded with other meanings already (e.g. "open-ended offer").

On another point, I really detest the term/acronym "MUG" and always have. It sounds forced and makes us sound ashamed to admit that we wear skirts. So, if one is wearing a skirt, just cut to the chase and say so; obfuscating it will only confuse and/or annoy the onlooker/conversant (They know what it is just as well as we do.). "Open garment" suffers from this somewhat, but gives us an opportunity to point out that the very openness of the garment is one of its endearing virtues.
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby partlyscot » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:07 pm

When you say "Open Garment" I think of "Open Source" and other examples of terminology indicating "unrestricted"

The word "open" applied to clothing, gets across the idea that one shouldn't be denied access, and at the same time, indicates at least one of the advantages. I like it.
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby Big and Bashful » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:31 pm

I actually prefer open ended, open could just mean an unbuttoned shirt or a robe which is open at the front. (Just a thought what I thinked!)
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Re: New terminology related to MUG wearing?

Postby MrUtopia » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:13 am

IMO most garments that are worn by men and women have the same name. Trousers, shorts, slacks, shirts (with the exception of blouse). I say call them SKIRTS. They are men's skirts, skirts for men, that is what they are. No confusion.

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