Are We Winning?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Jim2 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:39 am

Grok wrote:I think the key is older men. Men who-if they were going to reproduce-have already done so. (In this respect they would under less pressure than younger men). Men who are maverick enough to try something new, at least in terms of attire.

So.... Imagine a group of older iconoclasts. They are very conspicuous because they are willing to experiment with unorthodox clothing.... Imagine further that young men...and young women...get used to the idea of a man wearing one pipe. Because of a bunch of iconoclasts.


I find it strange that people here seem to think it likely that old men will have any significant effect on this issue. I can't imagine men over 40, even over 30, being relevant. This change when it happens will happen because young people decide to embrace the change on a massive scale, like what happened in the 60s when men started wearing their hair long. And even that has been largely reversed but it is now mostly acceptable and understood. I read on Wikipedia that men wearing earrings happened because of male pop stars doing so, and in the US especially just one, Mr. T. The obvious analogy with men wearing skirts would be Jaden Smith.

I could easily see young men deciding to wear skirts not to emulate a bunch of old men but to rebel against their parents' and grandparents' generations. There is a strong political split developing between the generations now. Study after study shows the millennials and younger to be the most liberal in the history of the country. And yet we have a 70-year old president who is extremely conservative, ruling together with a radically conservative Republican party. On perhaps the issue of the most importance to youth, global warming, we have a president and his party that are in total denial. I think things are ripe for a big split that results in young people not trusting the older generations, like in the 60s. Add a war to the mix, which we could very well get, and it could push things to the breaking point. But just keep Trump there, and the conflict between generations will become much stronger.

Right now, the style for young men (and women) is skinny jeans, just the opposite of skirts in a way. But often the pendulum swings exactly towards what is the opposite. In a way, skinny jeans and pants being the hip style just makes things ripe for something totally different to come to the fore. And what better way for young people to stick it to their elders than to embrace something that they would just find weird, namely, skirts on men.

I suspect that it will not be millennials who make this change happen but their younger brothers, the ones who would look up to Jaden Smith as a role model, and whose sense of the adult world is molded by seeing Trump in the White House.

I'll soften these comments a bit by saying that I do think that all the discussion that's been going on for 5-10 years now on the internet about men wearing skirts, and the example of utilikilts and other non-traditional kilts, and even the example of men such as ourselves is helping to change the way people think about this issue just a bit. Enough so as to make it a bit easier for someone like Jaden Smith to come along and be able to start a change.

I have spoken about politics as a motivating factor for young people to embrace men wearing skirts. I think that is very likely to be true. I think we are entering a period when young people will be way more actively aware and involved in leftist politics, like in the 60s. That is likely to color everything that happens in this country over the next 10-20 years. I don't think one can talk about what will happen in the US without taking this into account. These changes will not be confined to the US. They will be worldwide. And the signs of coming change are easy to see in other countries even today.
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Daryl » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:01 am

Jim2 wrote:
Grok wrote:I think the key is older men. Men who-if they were going to reproduce-have already done so. (In this respect they would under less pressure than younger men). Men who are maverick enough to try something new, at least in terms of attire.

So.... Imagine a group of older iconoclasts. They are very conspicuous because they are willing to experiment with unorthodox clothing.... Imagine further that young men...and young women...get used to the idea of a man wearing one pipe. Because of a bunch of iconoclasts.


I find it strange that people here seem to think it likely that old men will have any significant effect on this issue. I can't imagine men over 40, even over 30, being relevant. This change when it happens will happen because young people decide to embrace the change on a massive scale, like what happened in the 60s when men started wearing their hair long. And even that has been largely reversed but it is now mostly acceptable and understood. I read on Wikipedia that men wearing earrings happened because of male pop stars doing so, and in the US especially just one, Mr. T. The obvious analogy with men wearing skirts would be Jaden Smith.

I could easily see young men deciding to wear skirts not to emulate a bunch of old men but to rebel against their parents' and grandparents' generations. There is a strong political split developing between the generations now. Study after study shows the millennials and younger to be the most liberal in the history of the country. And yet we have a 70-year old president who is extremely conservative, ruling together with a radically conservative Republican party. On perhaps the issue of the most importance to youth, global warming, we have a president and his party that are in total denial. I think things are ripe for a big split that results in young people not trusting the older generations, like in the 60s. Add a war to the mix, which we could very well get, and it could push things to the breaking point. But just keep Trump there, and the conflict between generations will become much stronger.

Right now, the style for young men (and women) is skinny jeans, just the opposite of skirts in a way. But often the pendulum swings exactly towards what is the opposite. In a way, skinny jeans and pants being the hip style just makes things ripe for something totally different to come to the fore. And what better way for young people to stick it to their elders than to embrace something that they would just find weird, namely, skirts on men.

I suspect that it will not be millennials who make this change happen but their younger brothers, the ones who would look up to Jaden Smith as a role model, and whose sense of the adult world is molded by seeing Trump in the White House.

I'll soften these comments a bit by saying that I do think that all the discussion that's been going on for 5-10 years now on the internet about men wearing skirts, and the example of utilikilts and other non-traditional kilts, and even the example of men such as ourselves is helping to change the way people think about this issue just a bit. Enough so as to make it a bit easier for someone like Jaden Smith to come along and be able to start a change.

I have spoken about politics as a motivating factor for young people to embrace men wearing skirts. I think that is very likely to be true. I think we are entering a period when young people will be way more actively aware and involved in leftist politics, like in the 60s. That is likely to color everything that happens in this country over the next 10-20 years. I don't think one can talk about what will happen in the US without taking this into account. These changes will not be confined to the US. They will be worldwide. And the signs of coming change are easy to see in other countries even today.


Umm, yup, mostly. When I see how many young men are vulnerable to libertarian ideology (because it confirms a simple and heroic view of self), and how this fact is used cunningly by the architects of the "conservative movement", I do worry. A lot of young men supported Trump, and the excesses of modern liberal activists is giving them reason. Unemployed young men being told to check their privilege every time they have a thought is driving a movement that is growing in both size and stridency.

Older men have a role to play not because they lead fashion but because they don't. Leading edge fashion is often transgressive, but there are limits. Look at hiphop fashion. Never has anything been so safe while at the same time appearing extreme. What older men might do is merely establish that it's not too unsafe for fashion leaders to go there.
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Jim2 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:39 pm

Daryl wrote:Umm, yup, mostly. When I see how many young men are vulnerable to libertarian ideology (because it confirms a simple and heroic view of self), and how this fact is used cunningly by the architects of the "conservative movement", I do worry. A lot of young men supported Trump, and the excesses of modern liberal activists is giving them reason. Unemployed young men being told to check their privilege every time they have a thought is driving a movement that is growing in both size and stridency.

Older men have a role to play not because they lead fashion but because they don't. Leading edge fashion is often transgressive, but there are limits. Look at hiphop fashion. Never has anything been so safe while at the same time appearing extreme. What older men might do is merely establish that it's not too unsafe for fashion leaders to go there.


"A lot of young men supported Trump" is probably true since there are lots of young men period. Just as there are lots of old men. But percentage-wise, Trump got the bulk of his support from old men. Neither Trump nor the GOP have much support from millennials percentage-wise. Post-election polls showed that decisively. But the most interesting thing the election showed us, in my opinion, was how well young people responded to Bernie's campaign. No one foresaw that. I have no idea where you get this, "the excesses of modern liberal activists is giving them reason". They are themselves the biggest liberal activists in the country. They are driving it. Yes, there are pockets of non-college educated whites who have no jobs and little prospect of them. But those pockets are really a minority of youthful voters and their communities are rapidly losing their youth. Those parts of the country are older than the population as a whole, and it is the older parts of that population, mostly, who gave Trump the support he needed.

I suppose older men might establish that's it's not too unsafe to go there, and I kind of indicated at the end that they may have done so some already. But I doubt they matter all that much anymore. With Trump in the White House and the Republicans controlling all branches of government, change is going to start happening more rapidly. We are not in a stable situation. And politics will lead, while social issues will follow along. I could easily see guys wearing skirts becoming a way to rebel among young people. If they get to that point, they won't much care what old men are doing.
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Grok » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:52 pm

Actually, I can see a role for older iconoclasts-setting a precedent. Far too few to be the Establishment (borrowing a term from the 1960s), while defying a taboo.
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Daryl » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:25 am

Jim2 wrote:I suppose older men might establish that's it's not too unsafe to go there, and I kind of indicated at the end that they may have done so some already. But I doubt they matter all that much anymore. With Trump in the White House and the Republicans controlling all branches of government, change is going to start happening more rapidly. We are not in a stable situation. And politics will lead, while social issues will follow along. I could easily see guys wearing skirts becoming a way to rebel among young people. If they get to that point, they won't much care what old men are doing.


Well, if I thought young men were going to wear skirts as an act of rebellion, I might stop wearing mine just to make it feel more like their own original act. I could even make disapproving clucking sounds just to amplify that rebellious reaction! :cyclops:

Oh who am I kidding? No way I'm going back to pants. Let them find their own rebellion thing!
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Darryl » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:17 pm

"Let them find their own rebellion thing."

Hmmmm.

Leather combat thongs. :twisted:

Maximizes the 'breeze.'
Maximizes the freedom of movement.
:mrgreen:
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Daryl » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:27 pm

Darryl wrote:"Let them find their own rebellion thing."

Hmmmm.

Leather combat thongs. :twisted:

Maximizes the 'breeze.'
Maximizes the freedom of movement.
:mrgreen:


Okay okay, not all my ideas are entirely well considered!

P.S. Would those come with an integral holster for "concealed carry" situations?
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby hoborob » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:33 pm

Daryl wrote:
Darryl wrote:"Let them find their own rebellion thing."

Hmmmm.

Leather combat thongs. :twisted:

Maximizes the 'breeze.'
Maximizes the freedom of movement.
:mrgreen:


Okay okay, not all my ideas are entirely well considered!

P.S. Would those come with an integral holster for "concealed carry" situations?


Yep and one false move and you'll never have to worry about stand or sitting to pee..... :roll: :lol: :oops: :cheers: :censored:
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Daryl » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:49 am

hoborob wrote: Leather combat thongs. :twisted:

Daryl wrote:P.S. Would those come with an integral holster for "concealed carry" situations?

Yep and one false move and you'll never have to worry about stand or sitting to pee..... :roll: :lol: :oops: :cheers: :censored:


On 2nd thought I think I'll go with a standard thigh holster....
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Happy-N-Skirts » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:45 pm

The best place to start a men wearing skirt trend would be Hawaii. A lot of men wear some kind of skirt there already. If someone were to begin marketing a sort of a skirt to tourists, they might bring them home and wear them and then it might grow in popularity. If they liked wearing skirts in their vacation, they might like wearing them at home. Think of the potential.
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby crfriend » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:51 pm

Happy-N-Skirts wrote:The best place to start a men wearing skirt trend would be Hawaii. A lot of men wear some kind of skirt there already. If someone were to begin marketing a sort of a skirt to tourists, they might bring them home and wear them and then it might grow in popularity. If they liked wearing skirts in their vacation, they might like wearing them at home. Think of the potential.

That's actually a brilliant idea. There's enough left (or at least carefully preserved) of the pre-western culture of the local custom so that the notion might catch on. I also suspect, that once John Q. Public gets a sense of how comfortable skirts are he may consider retaining that upon returning to the mainland. Definitely food for thought.

Anybody know a boutique owner in Hawaii? Pass that thought along!
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Judah14 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:04 am

Happy-N-Skirts wrote:The best place to start a men wearing skirt trend would be Hawaii. A lot of men wear some kind of skirt there already. If someone were to begin marketing a sort of a skirt to tourists, they might bring them home and wear them and then it might grow in popularity. If they liked wearing skirts in their vacation, they might like wearing them at home. Think of the potential.

Also in the Philippines:
Image
So, do countries where skirts and robes are traditional clothing for men count?
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby JoePublic » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:42 am

I think it is getting more common, I searched "man skirt" on Twitter, and though a lot of kilts came up in the results, it seems fewer people are making fun of a man wearing an actual skirt. There was one guy called @Skirtsnhose who had a nice business suit I liked
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Daryl » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:00 am

Yes, countries like the Philipines definitely count too! I live in Canada and I have two lungi that I wear outside quite often. I discovered lungi in India. Anywhere westerners gather, try to sell them the local skirt, I say.
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Re: Are We Winning?

Postby Judah14 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:41 am

Daryl wrote:Yes, countries like the Philipines definitely count too! I live in Canada and I have two lungi that I wear outside quite often. I discovered lungi in India. Anywhere westerners gather, try to sell them the local skirt, I say.

After looking at your slideshow, I would say that the Filipino malong (worn predominantly by Muslims) is different from your lungi as the malong is always a sewn tube of cloth not a simple sheet.
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