Out and About -- In the World at Large

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Big and Bashful
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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geron wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:51 pm
Sinned wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:49 am ....But later it was renamed "BAE Systems Submarine Solution" in 2007. A much more satisfactory name.
They've got a method of dissolving submarines??
Yes but it takes a hell of a lot of stirring!
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Kirbstone
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Not at all funny, but the Russians would admit that it takes a lot of inbuilt secretive ineptitude at the top level of command.

Tom
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Big and Bashful
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Kirbstone wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:54 pm Not at all funny, but the Russians would admit that it takes a lot of inbuilt secretive ineptitude at the top level of command.

Tom
Sorry Tom, I can't figure out what you are alluding to, I must be missing something.
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Kirbstone
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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B&B,
The one we all know about is the Kursk.

Tom
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crfriend
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Kirbstone wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:08 pmThe one we all know about is the Kursk.
USS Thresher and Scorpion also come to mind.

Once humans are off their native terrain things can be pretty darned inhospitable.
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Big and Bashful
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Ah, you talking about top level cover-ups? Okay, Thresher, Kursk, K219, K19, Scorpion, nearly the USS San Francisco, Vanguard/French thing.

I don't think there was any attempt to hide the two UK A class oopsies, getting out of the water for a paddle on the beach with Astute or nutting an oil tanker in Gibraltar with a brand new Ambush, possibly because a submarine half way up a beach or with a big dint in the fin is hard to hide! of there was also the (I think) Superb battering a big rock, then there was the skimmer- HMS Nottingham that also hit something, they have no excuse, they have windows!
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Bodycon
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Big and Bashful wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:04 pm Ah, you talking about top level cover-ups? Okay,
Lets not forget numerous disappearing fishing boats around the Clyde, only a few of which have ever been admitted to.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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crfriend wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:20 pm Once humans are off their native terrain things can be pretty darned inhospitable.
Amen Carl and just about as far from the "world at large" as we can possibly imagine too.
Regarding "cover ups", my rig of choice today will be governed by the gale that is currently blowing over my native terrain.
The gods forbid that I should inadvertently reveal secrets while on Her Majesty's Service.
A jolly good morning to you all.
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Big and Bashful
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Bodycon wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:04 pm
Big and Bashful wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:04 pm Ah, you talking about top level cover-ups? Okay,
Lets not forget numerous disappearing fishing boats around the Clyde, only a few of which have ever been admitted to.
I know of one or two off the West coast of Scottishness, as someone who has sailed the West coast and used Marine band radio, I know that for a long time now whenever submarines are at play, the coastguard puts out a radio warning covering the area so that fishing boats can stay clear. As far as I have heard (as someone who works closely with our fleet) there have not been numerous losses of fishing boats. Of course, even one loss is too many.
If you know for definite, and not just supposition, I would love to hear. But don't quote anything from the Guardian or similar papers, I know just how wrong much of what they print is.

Anyway, it was nice wandering around Barrow in a skirt, also very enjoyable wearing the same skirt for the journey home, including a service station visit were I saw no looks and heard no comments, even though I was stood waiting for my order in a Burger King in Gretna services for an hour. Another side note- What the hell has happened to the flame grilled Burger King taste? I tried twice, Southwaite on the way down and Gretna on the way back, the burgers were hardly better than my memory of McDonalds. That cured my BK craving which I have had since the start of lockdown!
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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B&B, York had a Burger King, a couple of minutes drive from me, but it had the ultimate flame grilled experience and caught fire! Electrical fault apparently. They are in the process of pulling it down. I hope they rebuild it because I preferred the flame grilling to the Big Mac method and it was still evident down here, at least. I could certainly tell. Also they had one of those soft drinks vending machines where you could select all sorts of flavours and have a cherry/raspberry/strawberry cola drink. Or other combinations, lemon, lime etc. It also meant that you could have a "bottomless" drink with your meal and fill the cup up just before you went home. You might have appreciated that B&B.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Big and Bashful wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:24 pm I know of one or two off the West coast of Scottishness....
Having grown up on the West Coast, there have always been stories, some will be untrue of course, but the MOD will only admit things when they get caught. Have a look here: https://britishseafishing.co.uk/submari ... incidents/, not all on the Clyde of course.

Sorry, way off Topic and I can't think of a hook to get back on....I don't even have a navy blue skirt.
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Sinned
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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This may be a silly question but aren't submarines either on the surface, in which case there should be someone up top on lookout, or deep enough not to impact with a surface vessel? Apart from getting entangled in a net and maybe dragging the boat under.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Sinned wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:21 pmThis may be a silly question but aren't submarines either on the surface, in which case there should be someone up top on lookout, or deep enough not to impact with a surface vessel? Apart from getting entangled in a net and maybe dragging the boat under.
Most collisions between submarines and surface vessels happen when the submarine is surfacing -- and especially if it's surfacing with "blown tanks" (which is an emergency move that needs to be tested from time to time) where if the thing intersects the surface where a boat is already implies a collision, with the smaller boat losing the game, usually with all hands.

Militaries also operate under a shroud of secrecy, which is why specific numbers are not usually available unless there were independent witnesses present to see what happened and who wouldn't be cowed by the pressure to report what they witnessed.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Sinned wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:21 pm This may be a silly question but aren't submarines either on the surface, in which case there should be someone up top on lookout, or deep enough not to impact with a surface vessel? Apart from getting entangled in a net and maybe dragging the boat under.
Yes, fishing boats being dragged under by their nets is the main cause locally.
Big and Bashful
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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Sinned wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:21 pm This may be a silly question but aren't submarines either on the surface, in which case there should be someone up top on lookout, or deep enough not to impact with a surface vessel? Apart from getting entangled in a net and maybe dragging the boat under.
Good question, yes on the surface they will have people on the sail/fin/conning tower keeping watch. Under water they will mostly just be listening to the noises around them, if they start pinging they are advertising their presence to any other warships or submarines at vast distances.
Think of how a blind person with a cane moves, the cane is the ping, rattling it around lets them feel what is in the way and also lets people near them hear the cane as it taps. Or they can put the cane away and just listen to the environment, some things make noise, some things absorb noise, some things reflect noise. If they are good they can navigate pretty well just by sound. The same for submarines, a good chart and good sonar work really well as long as they can take regular fixes and have good inertial navigation for between the fixes. Doesn't always work, the USS San Francisco hit a rock spire at flank speed, it is amazing that only one or two died and that the sub even made it to the surface and back to port under it's own power. I believe the investigation found that they were using a chart that did not have the mount shown.
Things get more complicated with ships, they have an inconvenient habit of moving, so they are not shown on charts. From what I have heard and surmised, when Ambush nutted an oil tanker it was in the waters off Gibraltar. They were training at harbour observation, so I guess they were being sneaky and tippy toeing through the harbour, probably not using active sonar, just listening. I believe they were climbing to periscope depth to make observations and hit the bottom of an oil tanker. The anchored tanker was probably at anchor and only running generators periodically to top up the batteries, so when not running generators it would be silent, so the sub would not hear anything, until there was a bump! There would be a time when it was almost at periscope depth but still blind, a bad time to be under a tanker!
As for fishing boats, a small boat will sound like a small boat, the nets will be silent. Our subs stay on the surface until they are a certain distance out then dive, as I said previously, the coastguard does warn of sub activity in certain areas but for obvious reasons they will only describe a large area and not a specific location. Fishing boats should not be fishing in those areas during the times those warnings are in force. If a sub does catch nets, they might not even notice, a 5000 ton nuclear sub will not notice a 200 ton trawler hitching a lift! In shallow waters a sub can't go deep to avoid nets, also to communicate they need to be close to the surface, then there's periscope sightings, many reasons they may need to be shallow.
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