Out and About -- In the World at Large

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Grok
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Grok »

Going back over the history of women going the other way....

During the 1890s bloomers saw a measure of acceptance-and legality-for use in athletic activities.

During the first world war, wives wore their husbands trousers for work in factories.

We start to see some more change in the 1920s. Though considered edgy, trousers began to see acceptance as leisurewear. An example was a form of resort wear, the Beach Pajama outfit. Actually, the Beach Pajamas seemed to have a bit of glamour.

Generally, trousers for women were accepted only for casual activities. Nothing formal.
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crfriend
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by crfriend »

STEVIE wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:19 am
crfriend wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:37 am
We've got one more last-ditch, almost-lost-cause battle to fight. We lose this, and we've lost everything.
Well, If that's the case I will go out in my own style and not under the diktat of anyone else.
The stalwarts will likely do that, but they'd better be ready to defend themselves as things harden up even more as the overall course of society continues to decay into what's likely going to be a death-spiral.
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Grok
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Grok »

Women in trousers during the 1920s. Previously it was acceptable for women to wear bloomers for certain athletic activities. That trend was amplified by the addition of "knickers", as they were called. But this was also the decade when trousers for other uses began to gain traction, such as work attire. Also, as with beach pajamas,

During the 1930s trousered actresses and female pilots had some prominence.

During WWII women wore trousers during their shifts in munitions factories.

During the 1950s there was a general trend back to skirts/dresses, but women still had a few options, such as cigarette pants.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Grok »

The 1950s. For trousers specifically intended/designed/tailored for women, several different designs gained traction. Women had a work garment-an early version of women's jeans. There were a few other designs which could be described as general purpose designs. At present, there are no general purpose skirts for men that have gained traction, not really.
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crfriend
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by crfriend »

We all know the history of WIT (Women In Trousers) so we don't need a refresher. We're also acutely aware of the double-standard that exists in the here and now because that's where we dwell. And we're becoming aware that pretty soon what really ought to be a simple style choice is taking on signifiers that will remove the option once and for all from all straight men.

That's all history. Women eventually won. We, as men, on the other hand have multiple battles now that we need to fight in order to open the world up, and that's going to have to be fought on at least two fronts -- women and the trans-* faction. I was confident about this two decades ago. Now I no longer am, and am starting to get angry about it.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by STEVIE »

crfriend wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:22 pm
I was confident about this two decades ago. Now I no longer am, and am starting to get angry about it.
Angry may be good motivation in this case Carl.
I will say that things are really OK over here, at least for now anyway.
My broadest support still seems to come from women the trans element may not be quite as vocal either.
The fly in the ointment is that one of the potential leaders of the Tory party is set on abandoning all European based laws.
That could certainly cause problems if any employer got pedantic about males and skirts around the office.
Steve.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Ray »

Ah, the Tory leadership campaign. A lurch to the right, and a race to emigrate more to Rwanda. Unedifying. Sad.

I find both candidates appalling in the comments they are coming out with.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Midas »

I was walking in the sunshine this morning, wearing a dress. I was accosted by a woman who asked ‘are you a man or a woman?’

I replied that I was a man in a dress. She said it was nice and she would get one for her husband.
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Re: crfriends comments and LGBTQ XYZ

Post by rode_kater »

crfriend wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:37 am
If the skirt on a guy becomes a signifier that the man is on 'The Spectrum", the window of opportunity will close -- forcefully, and for the foreseeable future (in other words well beyond our life-expectancies).
I'm not concerned about this at all. Nobody is claiming the skirt as signifier of anything, least of all the trans-community. They have much bigger fish to fry than what clothing they wear. Most people don't really care about the spectrum either. "Don't prejudge people" and "don't be an asshole" are all you need to know. I suppose there might be some people who need the "skirt means trans" crutch to deal with their cognitive dissonance but I posit they are relatively rare.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by jamie001 »

Why does it matter if a man wearing a skirt becomes indicative of being on the gender nonconforming spectrum? I am gender nonconforming and there is nothing wrong with being gender nonconforming. It does not in any way lower a person’s status.

On the other hand, if skirts for men becomes a “thing” then we will only get drab, boring colors and cuts just like the current state of men’s fashion. In this case, I will reject the men’s skirt and continue wearing a women’s skirt in the feminine colors and patterns that appeal to me.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Chirp »

jamie001 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:41 am
On the other hand, if skirts for men becomes a “thing” then we will only get drab, boring colors and cuts just like the current state of men’s fashion. In this case,
I can agree with u 100% on that, Company's will try to play the skirt off as mans skirt and and try to make it look foolish or as far away from woman's skirt as it can be,
No one mess's with a big guy in kilt
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by STEVIE »

Chirp wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:14 am
Company's will try to play the skirt off as mans skirt and and try to make it look foolish
To a certain extent Chirp they already are.
Worse still, some men fall for it, if for no other reason by paying the ludicrous premiums attaching to the "manskirt" tag.
The wider adoption of the kilt as the only acceptable skirt for a guy may also be indicative of how we have actually been conned through clever marketing.
I have said elsewhere, other opinions don't matter to me and labels even less.
If they really did, I'd never have outgrown trousers, a sobering thought!
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Bodycon »

jamie001 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:41 am
Why does it matter if a man wearing a skirt becomes indicative of being on the gender nonconforming spectrum? I am gender nonconforming and there is nothing wrong with being gender nonconforming. It does not in any way lower a person’s status.
Its not about the label, but the misuse of that label. Simply, it matters to those who don't wish to be labelled as something they are not.

You may be gender non-conforming, but if wearing a skirt was taken by society to signify that you were a criminal, you would probably object.
jamie001 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:41 am
On the other hand, if skirts for men becomes a “thing” then we will only get drab, boring colors and cuts just like the current state of men’s fashion. In this case, I will reject the men’s skirt and continue wearing a women’s skirt in the feminine colors and patterns that appeal to me.
So you get the wish for men in skirts to become accepted and businesses start to provide them, then you reject them? I think you would be in the minority and most folk like to have plain options in their wardrobe. Consider that you have to start somewhere and actually the best thing about skirts made for men would be the cut of the skirt, slimmer hips and thighs, a straighter waist to hip and a less of a bum. Small things that make a difference to fit and look.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Coder »

Bodycon wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:07 am
So you get the wish for men in skirts to become accepted and businesses start to provide them, then you reject them? I think you would be in the minority and most folk like to have plain options in their wardrobe.
I think this equally applies to women - sure they get more variety but only a smaller percentage wear what I would consider neat clothes - prints, skirts, etc... And even within the skirt-wearing options, only a fraction are patterned in a fun way.
Bodycon wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:07 am
Consider that you have to start somewhere and actually the best thing about skirts made for men would be the cut of the skirt, slimmer hips and thighs, a straighter waist to hip and a less of a bum. Small things that make a difference to fit and look.
Yeah, I can attest to this, as most here probably can. With the right adjustments sometimes the extra hip-bulge can be fixed, but often I mull over taking it in with a machine, haven't done so yet but might take in two skirts for this fall.

The trouble for me would come down to styles - specifically they are just not going to make the following in a mans cut:

asymmetrical
mixed material (ie, wool panels + cotton)
bouclé

The regular denim, etc... I'd be fine buying from the man's aisle.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by jamie001 »

Bodycon wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:07 am
jamie001 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:41 am
Why does it matter if a man wearing a skirt becomes indicative of being on the gender nonconforming spectrum? I am gender nonconforming and there is nothing wrong with being gender nonconforming. It does not in any way lower a person’s status.
Its not about the label, but the misuse of that label. Simply, it matters to those who don't wish to be labelled as something they are not.

You may be gender non-conforming, but if wearing a skirt was taken by society to signify that you were a criminal, you would probably object.
jamie001 wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:41 am
On the other hand, if skirts for men becomes a “thing” then we will only get drab, boring colors and cuts just like the current state of men’s fashion. In this case, I will reject the men’s skirt and continue wearing a women’s skirt in the feminine colors and patterns that appeal to me.
So you get the wish for men in skirts to become accepted and businesses start to provide them, then you reject them? I think you would be in the minority and most folk like to have plain options in their wardrobe. Consider that you have to start somewhere and actually the best thing about skirts made for men would be the cut of the skirt, slimmer hips and thighs, a straighter waist to hip and a less of a bum. Small things that make a difference to fit and look.
I agree that the cut of the skirt to fit the male body will be a good thing. I am against the mindset of limiting men's skirts to the normal drab black, brown, blue, and gray. It is fine with me if they want to offer those colors, and I will probably purchase several of them, but they also need to offer bright colors and floral patterns.
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