Out and About -- In the World at Large

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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crfriend
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by crfriend »

STEVIE wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:24 pm
Coder wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:04 pm
how at any age had I seen a guy wearing a skirt casually, what that would have done for my psyche. I figure there was at least one person in the stadium that day - whether they saw me or not, who knows.
You and me both Coder. I have realised more and more as my skirted journey continues just how damnably lonely I was in the past. Frankly, a guy in a skirt in plain everyday sight would have blown me away.
Sherman, set the wayback machine to 1984 or thereabouts and let's see what we can find!

And thus, close to 30 years ago I had my first brush with a bloke in a skirt on Boston's metro (the MBTA, better known locally as yhe "T"). It was a white almost ankle-length job, and he was just going about his business like nothing was untoward (which is the way it needs to ne done). That may be what put the seed in my head -- and I didn't take to skirts until 2002 or thereabouts, there being other impediments (family, job, &c.) in the way.

Wind the clock forward into the very early 21st Century, with the aforementioned inhibitors gone, and I dove in head-first and have relished it since -- save for the recent hardening of the line that seems to denote skirts on guys as signifiers that the guy is on the LGBTQWTF spectrum -- which is making me consider ditching skirts for trousers.
On the second point, none of us really know all the people that we may have influenced for better or worse, we can only do the best we can.
I must have been seen by thousands in the intervening decades, and I've always tried to bring the look off with panache and confidence. Direct feedback indicates that I made quite the splash in Savanna, GA last year based on the commentary of my occasional correspondent there.

Have I encouraged even one individual to take up the mantle? I have no idea, and likely never will. But, such is life.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by STEVIE »

crfriend wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:10 am
Wind the clock forward into the very early 21st Century, with the aforementioned inhibitors gone, and I dove in head-first and have relished it since -- save for the recent hardening of the line that seems to denote skirts on guys as signifiers that the guy is on the LGBTQWTF spectrum -- which is making me consider ditching skirts for trousers.
Hi Carl,
Like many of us here you must have had to pretty much ignore the doubters and naysayers to achieve the successes which your sartorial choices have brought. I'd rather hope that you would not sacrifice all of that for something which is no more than an invalidated matter of opinion.
I really don't believe that my choices say any more about my sexual or gender preferences than the shape of my face or the bumps in my skull.
Lets face it, the world and his dog also believe that "real" men do not wear skirts. Yeah, and we all know where that little factoid belongs do we not?
crfriend wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:10 am
Have I encouraged even one individual to take up the mantle? I have no idea, and likely never will. But, such is life.
Actually, your work here has certainly had a very positive and supportive influence on me and I am also sure that I am not alone.
For the future we also have no idea how much potential influence which we could be having either.
Actually, none if we back-down now.
Keep the faith CR Friend, Keep the Faith!
Steve.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by crfriend »

STEVIE wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:55 am
crfriend wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:10 am
Wind the clock forward into the very early 21st Century, with the aforementioned inhibitors gone, and I dove in head-first and have relished it since -- save for the recent hardening of the line that seems to denote skirts on guys as signifiers that the guy is on the LGBTQWTF spectrum -- which is making me consider ditching skirts for trousers.
Like many of us here you must have had to pretty much ignore the doubters and naysayers to achieve the successes which your sartorial choices have brought. I'd rather hope that you would not sacrifice all of that for something which is no more than an invalidated matter of opinion.
I really don't believe that my choices say any more about my sexual or gender preferences than the shape of my face or the bumps in my skull.
Lets face it, the world and his dog also believe that "real" men do not wear skirts. Yeah, and we all know where that little factoid belongs do we not?
Indeed, it's just that I'm tired of fighting for what amount to lost causes. One gets weary after a long life of that -- and the ground is always moving, along with the goalposts.
crfriend wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:10 am
Have I encouraged even one individual to take up the mantle? I have no idea, and likely never will. But, such is life.
Actually, your work here has certainly had a very positive and supportive influence on me and I am also sure that I am not alone.
I am humbled by that, and thank you for saying it. And you're entirely right -- if we back down we'll never have an effect.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Grok »

No, not a Lost Cause. Actually, I believe that the office of Master Barista is a constructive role.

Okay, for newer members I will repeat something I posted awhile back. The history of women going the other way. In the mid 19th century some maverick women experimented with trousers. One notable version featured a skirt over "bloomers" (baggy trousers). In the late 19th century bloomers (minus the skirt) became accepted as athletic wear for women, especially for riding the new fangled bicycles. Some women tried culottes, which-having a skirt-like appearance-was tolerated if not accepted. During the early 20th century change was slow, but during World War II women wore trousers when they worked in the factories.

When I was a small child during the 1960s most females mostly wore skirts/dresses. Followed by a trousers revolution for women, a bit more than a century after women first experimented with trousers.


The analogy is that we males are in a very early experimental phase, roughly comparable to the one some maverick women experienced during the mid 19th century.
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Goal posts-ties

Post by Grok »

1. Tolerated, if not really accepted. Mainstream society finds it tolerable for mavericks to wear a certain garment. An example was woman in culottes.

2. Acceptable in a limited application. An example-bloomers as athletic wear in the late 19th century.

3. Accepted, but not mainstream. An example in USA-the traditional Scottish kilt. (Before utility kilts began to gain traction).

4. Accepted as mainstream, if barely. Women in trousers during the 1960s.

5. Clothing revolution. One example is women in trousers. Another was Japanese embracing Western garb during the Meiji Restoration.
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Goal posts-types

Post by Grok »

I meant "types" in the title of my last post.

1. Tolerated. From my point of view, this is the goal post that we should aspire to at this early date. Compared to the Taboo, this is progress. Leave me alone as experiment as I please!

2. Acceptance in a niche application. I think skirts for athletic and/or outdoors activities might become accepted during my life time. Society seems to offer men a bit more latitude for athletic wear. For example, these are one of the very few times when mens wear is brightly colored. Note-we might see skorts rather than true skirts.

This category might eventually include sarongs as beach wear.

4. Just barely in the mainstream. During the 1950s cigarette pants were an option for women.

5. Clothing Revolution. I see this as a diversity of skirts, dresses, and robes being accepted as mens wear
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Grok »

Category 6. Some type of skirt becomes mens wear in the context of a particular subculture. For example, I recall seeing a skirt being advertised as a Goth skirt.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

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I have no illusions that the last one -- Clothing Revolution -- is even remotely possible in the modern world, especially as the clothing-as-signifier-of-LGBTQWTF hardens up. I do not think for an instant that once that completely sets up that men will touch anything other than trousers with a 10-meter pole.

The rest can be countered in conversation if (1) conversation is possible and (2) the wearer has the chutzpah to actually bring it off. I'm accepted locally because I'm approachable and don't skulk around like I'm doing something wrong. Even then, however, there are the occasional dicey moments.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by TomOfTx »

When I first started to wear a denim skirt earlier in the year as an alternative to shorts/pants to be more comfortable, especially while sitting, due to battling vascular disease in both legs for the past 18 years, my wife went absolutely nuts!!! I hadn’t even worn it outside my house at that time! She began saying how I was committing sin, I was a cross dresser, confusing our kids, and….. I was somehow connected to the whole LGBQWTF movement! Totally false and had no influence on my decision whatsoever! The skirt was actually more like a medical device much like the compression hose I have worn on both legs for nearly 10 years! She acted supportive of the compression hose, but never wanted anyone outside my house to ever see them!

In the following months, I started wearing a skirt every day while driving my tractor trailer. In late May, I began wearing a skirt outside my truck. Presently, I now wear a skirt everywhere I go!

I have nothing to do with LGBQWTF and no desire to. Oh, and my wife and I are now in the process of getting divorced! I wonder how she will feel years from now having become divorced over a piece of clothing that has greatly helped with my medical condition. Her family is originally from Greece. Men wear skirts there. The fustanella, a short white pleated skirt, is part of the Greek military’s dress uniform! She pretends that doesn’t exist! 😎
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Grok »

I am forced to agree-we won't see a clothing revolution during our life times. (I was born in 1956). There might never be a clothing revolution. If there ever is, history suggests that it may-at the earliest-gain traction during the early 22nd century. A life time away, if not more.

Number 4-a general purpose design that becomes an option for the mainstream. History suggests that this may appear a couple decades before a clothing revolution, as in the case of cigarette pants. Again, likely beyond the life times of most members. (Though I would be happy to be proved wrong :!: ).

BTW, Pinerest had some images dating back to the 1950s, where something like a skirt is worn over cigarette pants. Even then, society had trouble letting go of the convention that women belonged in skirts/dresses.

Number 2-might be an option even if new designs fail Possibly an imported garment might be commercially viable, because of the customers in the country of origin. As an example, I am thinking of the skirt like garment worn by soccer players in Guatemala.
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Response to TomOfTx

Post by Grok »

Perhaps some wives will tolerate a skirted garment if-but only if-it is traditional mens wear in there country, and only with a tradition purpose and setting. The fustanella in Greece, the (traditional) kilt in Scotland, as examples.
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Re: crfriends comments and LGBTQ XYZ

Post by Grok »

So.... Will we soon have to resort to garments that blur the distinction between skirts and trousers?

There was a bit of discussion in the thread Common Terminology regarding "stealth skirts". As I understand it, the skirt would be designed to resemble shorts. A deep pleat center front, and a deep pleat center rear, creating a semblance of legs. Happy-N-Skirts said that he felt like he was getting away with something while wearing such a garment. :mrgreen: I recall somebody once describing a similar garment, with the option of fastening front and rear hems with a button.

Another possibility is skOrts.
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Re: crfriends comments and LGBTQ XYZ

Post by crfriend »

Grok wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:24 am
So.... Will we soon have to resort to garments that blur the distinction between skirts and trousers?
If the skirt on a guy becomes a signifier that the man is on 'The Spectrum", the window of opportunity will close -- forcefully, and for the foreseeable future (in other words well beyond our life-expectancies). We've got one more last-ditch, almost-lost-cause battle to fight. We lose this, and we've lost everything.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by STEVIE »

crfriend wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:37 am
We've got one more last-ditch, almost-lost-cause battle to fight. We lose this, and we've lost everything.
Well, If that's the case I will go out in my own style and not under the diktat of anyone else.
Grok wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:24 am
So.... Will we soon have to resort to garments that blur the distinction between skirts and trousers?
In the long term Grok we'd just revert to trousers. Ersatz Skirts, just don't cut it, for me at any rate.
Even the broader acceptance of kilts for men is just a sop to Joe Public.
Steve.
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Re: Out and About -- In the World at Large

Post by Grok »

If we have little time left, a stealth skirt won't help. I imagine something like that having a very gradual influence, due to its stealthy nature, over a period of perhaps decades..
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