What am I REALLY wanting.

[simon]

I posted last night, that I currently have issues I'm trying to resolve.

While reading through an old thread, I came across this that I wanted to discuss a bit further.

Speaking for myself, to the extent I think about it, I consider myself male, and don't want to be mistaken for female. But I like wearing full, flouncy skirts, which some people would see as "feminine" (or is it that some part of me sees it as "feminine"?)

Like most people, I'm full of conflicts, and one of mine is whether I'm secretly trying to look female or would I like these things even if society didn't label them "female", and how do I feel about either one?

This is very close to the way I'm feeling. I simply LOVE full, flowing skirts. I love seeing them on any woman ... and I'd love to wear them. Yesterday I forced myself to be honest while we were out and about. I realised that I was jealous to a greater or lesser extent of every feminine article of clothing. Although by far the strongest feeling was for the skirts. What I was experiencing was suggesting that what I really wanted was to look/feel feminine (by my shaky definition).

Having acknowledged that, what can I do? Although I want to wear skirts, I'm not willing to give up on my masculinity to do it. Such a major part of my motivations for doing it come from this, but if I do it wanting to look/feel feminine, I'd be destroying something that is more core to my being.

So, what do you think? Who out there has or is struggling with with this?

[Departed Member]

Couple of things to consider? (You don't need to answer these points here, if you don't wish to!)

Have you ever been able to wear a skirt at any time, even as part of fancy dress outfit? Even if it was just at home? Lots of blokes just want to give it a try - if only once!

Do you feel if you were to don a skirt, you'd feel 'obligated' to add 'all the rest' of what you perceive to be 'feminine' gear?

Why not give (as others have suggested) the 'old favourite' a try first? That is, a denim skirt, knee-length, or ankle-length - it doesn't matter which! They're reasonably priced, most have those 'male' necessities such as pockets, a fly, belt loops or whatever, and will reduce the 'self-conscious' factor. Your 'other half' will feel far less 'threatened', too! I'm sure many of us have had worries that, "It might be the first step to ...." Your wife will almost certainly have such fears, even if not spoken. Despite what some will tell you, even on this forum, you cannot 'cross-dress' (I'm talking 'full femme') openly as a man and expect not to be held to ridicule. Wrong? Shouldn't be allowed? Maybe! But you're taking one h*ll of a risk. Only you can decide if you're prepared to take that road............

[Peter v]

I posted last night, that I currently have issues I'm trying to resolve.

While reading through an old thread, I came across this that I wanted to discuss a bit further.

Speaking for myself, to the extent I think about it, I consider myself male, and don't want to be mistaken for female. But I like wearing full, flouncy skirts, which some people would see as "feminine" (or is it that some part of me sees it as "feminine"?)

Like most people, I'm full of conflicts, and one of mine is whether I'm secretly trying to look female or would I like these things even if society didn't label them "female", and how do I feel about either one?

This is very close to the way I'm feeling. I simply LOVE full, flowing skirts. I love seeing them on any woman ... and I'd love to wear them. Yesterday I forced myself to be honest while we were out and about. I realised that I was jealous to a greater or lesser extent of every feminine article of clothing. Although by far the strongest feeling was for the skirts. What I was experiencing was suggesting that what I really wanted was to look/feel feminine (by my shaky definition).

Having acknowledged that, what can I do? Although I want to wear skirts, I'm not willing to give up on my masculinity to do it. Such a major part of my motivations for doing it come from this, but if I do it wanting to look/feel feminine, I'd be destroying something that is more core to my being.

So, what do you think? Who out there has or is struggling with with this?

Hallo Simon, I can tell you, ALWAYS be true to your self!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No matter who you're married to, and no matter who you work with or recreate with.

You are not destroying anything, but just adding to it, being more of a ""man"" ((PERSON)) than before, If you want to dress "feminine", but not BE a woman, then no problem. Only when you actually want to BE A WOMAN, A FEMININE woman, then and only then you will have to leave the masculinity, and become more femme. And you could then achieve that WITHOUT wearing skirts!

As I think that you as me, only love the clothing and the way women dress, then that is no issue.

IF you can really listen to YOUR feelings, you may come to the conclusion that, you do want to "enjoy" the same privilages that women do. with regards to clothing freedom and expression. Don't be scared to be YOURSELF. If you come to the conclusion that you are ""Femminine"" in thought, don't hit yourself with a stick, in the place of your mates. Just ACCEPT it.

Then comes the realization of the change that needs to take place.
Take that one step at a time, for some that means once every year, so after 50 years they are still nowhere. for others that means once a week, and even better is every day. The most important decision is to actually take stepps and DO IT. Only by actually doing it then you will know if it really is you.

Start and keep the momentum going. BUT just like driving, manoevre out of harm's way, stopping at the right moments and so on. If you have a relationship, state what you ARE GOING TO DO. Then talk about how you both can work on doing that. YOU HAVE to go through with it. BUT with consideration of others so that they will be prepared to help you.

Don't let anything hang on wheather others want you to do it. You ARE GOING TO DO IT. ( and find out if what you have done is what you thought it would be)

There is no easy way to do these things, like swimming without getting wet. to swim you have to get in the water. The difference is sudden, from dry to wet, but once that's done, then you start learning how to swim.

It has to do with life choices, and nobody is waiting for you to change your ways, because that means that they will have to adapt to your change. So some may act negative to what you try, but it is YOUR life.

I am sure that if you would from one day to the other step in the door dressed as a woman, your partner if you have one, may want a divorce. But she may also say, is this the real you? Let's talk about this, and how we can work on this, so that you can be your true self.

It is all up to what you dare and the circumstances around you.

You're affraid to loose your masculanity? Your masculanity may be only the show that you have unknowingly been putting on all your life for the pleasure of others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will ALWAYS be YOURSELF, weather in skirts, naked, in pants or whatever. It';s more important to be yourself than put on a show for the world. That's something I think we, the more experienced wearers have come to realise. If you have a Ferari, you may have friends only because you have that, if you do away with it, then you will see who the REAL friends are, for YOU, not the car. With skirt wearing that too can happen, but Only true friends are worth anything. So that is no real issue. Wearing skirts is not so much a change, as being your real self, giving up the farce of before.

It is up to you in which steps you do things. But remember, a ten year plan ( Just to be easy on the others around you is not good for you, and you'll be ten years on when it's finnished. )

Plan ahead, think about your moves, so that you are confident about the steps you take. Starting with a simple denim skirt alone is the way most of us start, and some leave it at that. But If I read your words correctly you will go further. So get used to the change of clothes with a starter denim, and take it from there. Go shopping, in women's stores, and try on other skirts, clothing, By doing that on a constant basis, you will feel more and more comfortable about what you are doing. Remember, You only have one lifetime to live. Once you are confident with the denim, try another type of skirt you really like, and take it from there.

I have done this, and after a month I was walking around quite "femminine" but not impersonating a woman, just wearing skirts, and some nicer tailored vests, sweaters etc that women have. Also pantys and boots to match. I am still the same man I was before, but now true to my real self.

For example, I am a motorcyclist, and think that if I was to want a nice set of biker clothes, that were not in a "man's" clothing line, I would buy what I sought in the woman's clothing. Not because it's women's, but because my choice of what I really like is not made in the men's line, but it is available in the women's line. So if it fits, I would buy that. That's how skirt wearing works too. Some men like other things than the general man wants or accepts. As the clothing industry is generally male or female orientated, if you want something that is in the female clothing side, then if it fits, buy it. Once you wear it, it becomes your male clothing.

"If you wanted to look like a woman, you'd wear tr*users!"

Don't rush, but keep the momentum going, and all the while be respectful and tactful to the ones that are near and important to you. If they are good friends, or loved ones, you should get support and respect from them. If they have a problem with what you do, that is their problem. And you can choose if you want to be your self and respected for who you are, or live the rest of your life denying your true self, doing a show for others.

I've said enough, but read the topics and you'll see that it pays to go through with skirt wearing, BEING yourself, as far as you want to take it. The choice is all your's.

Best regards,
Peter v.

[AMM]

... I can tell you, ALWAYS be true to your self!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No matter who you're married to, and no matter who you work with or recreate with.
.....

I see a fair number of postings in this spirit, basically saying, just do it, and they always make me a bit uneasy. While I agree that the biggest barrier for many of us is internal, yet I also feel that if someone feels a "stop" in themselves (to use a Quaker term), there may be good reasons to hesitate, even if nobody can explain what they are.

SkirtCafe is not the sort of place that is going to attract a lot of people who want to tell us the reasons not to wear a skirt. In the absence of such balancing voices, I fear that it might be possible here to get into a cheerleading mentality: "WEAR THAT SKIRT! WEAR THAT SKIRT! HARDER! HARDER!" I know that a football cheer in favor of skirts sounds silly, but some posts come awfully close to this.

A Personal Experience (only apparently OT):

For the most part, I tend to stubbornly resist all attempts to get me to do what I don't feel like doing, but sometimes I have let myself be pushed into something against what that little inner voice was saying. I remember one summer during college when my father talked me into selling soap door-to-door. The word "fiasco" does not do my experience justice. It says something about my father's powers of salesmanship that I rang doorbells around an entire block before re-realizing how ill-suited I was to any sort of sales job.


I guess I'm just asking us to give the doubters and hesitators a little space to find their way to wherever they need to go -- to skirt-wearing, or not.

[BrotherTailor]

I posted last night, that I currently have issues I'm trying to resolve.

While reading through an old thread, I came across this that I wanted to discuss a bit further.

Speaking for myself, to the extent I think about it, I consider myself male, and don't want to be mistaken for female. But I like wearing full, flouncy skirts, which some people would see as "feminine" (or is it that some part of me sees it as "feminine"?)

Like most people, I'm full of conflicts, and one of mine is whether I'm secretly trying to look female or would I like these things even if society didn't label them "female", and how do I feel about either one?

This is very close to the way I'm feeling. I simply LOVE full, flowing skirts. I love seeing them on any woman ... and I'd love to wear them. Yesterday I forced myself to be honest while we were out and about. I realised that I was jealous to a greater or lesser extent of every feminine article of clothing. Although by far the strongest feeling was for the skirts. What I was experiencing was suggesting that what I really wanted was to look/feel feminine (by my shaky definition).

Having acknowledged that, what can I do? Although I want to wear skirts, I'm not willing to give up on my masculinity to do it. Such a major part of my motivations for doing it come from this, but if I do it wanting to look/feel feminine, I'd be destroying something that is more core to my being.

So, what do you think? Who out there has or is struggling with with this?

Simon,
I understand your attraction to "bouffant" styles and the long flowing skirts. I share this liking. I wear clothes like that around the house, but I live alone, so there is no problem with acceptance by others. I sew my own. I think it is normal for a man who has been forced into a stereotypical mould all his life to long for what has been denied. If possible, I would suggest that you indulge this desire at home, and present a public face along the lines of a kilt, or denim and twill utility type skirt, more "manly". There is a bit of "ladylikeness" in most of us, an inner refined self that seeks expression... it is not a bad thing. I wear an ankle length white gown, belted at the waist, out in public on Sundays as it is my religious habit. I wore two petticoats under it yesterday, very full and WARM. For me this is enough exposure in this "mode" once a week or so. (I also wear other gear with it). Even with the petticoats and nipped in waist it still presents as very masculine due to the fact that a monastic or clerical habit yells "patriarchal male" authority figure, whether or not that is the case. It is all about context, and the way we are perceived. (There is something slightly "asexual", and rightly so, in strictly Religious and clerical garb, the individual wearing it is subsumed into a higher reality, the person becomes less as the clothes of his office become dominant. There is no personality worshipping)

So whatever you decide, try to create a context in which you are comfortable and in which you want others to see you. However it must not be so entirely "other" and new from your present life, or it will be seen as artificial and simply a fad or phase you're going through. It must appear natural, an extension of yourself into another domain.

[JRMILLER]

Simon,
I struggle with these kind of feelings too and I think the primary reason for it is because the clothing items of interest are generally associated with women. I mean, prior to wearing skirts, I NEVER questioned myself along these lines, never.

Our logical mind can look at women's clothing and deduce that it's OK and reasonable to adopt and like some of their clothing. Frankly, we are all "human" first and certain items may be liked simply from being human, not man or woman. Where is it written that fashion designers have it "right" each and every time in tagging one item for women and another item for men.

I have seen fashion designers work and frankly, IMHO they are projecting their own likes into their designs and also attempting to be trendy. Their designs are "relative" to everything else that's out there.

Our emotions can play Hell with us because our culture has been washing ideas through our minds all our life. So, while we may logically deduce that it's OK to like and wear a skirt (or other item), once we start wearing it, our emotions can start working on us in the background creating conflict. It's at that point we begin to question who we are, what we are, what gender we are, etc. because our emotional side has bought into all the crap that we have been fed all our lives.

It takes time to change your own attitudes and your journey must first begin with yourself. Once you are solid within yourself (not an easy task for some of us), then you can convince others.

From my logical mind: it's OK to like clothing regardless of who it is made for, we are human first, gender second. Most clothing made for men and women can be worn by either, the obvious exceptions are bras and jock straps and the like.

So, once you have settled down your mind on these issues, then the next step is how do you want or care to be perceived by others? My personal feelings are with family and friends, take it very slowly and if you value them in your life, respect their feelings about it.

With the general public it's different, we should not allow others to box us and tell us how to dress, period. Be your own person. However, the farther into femme land you go, the more odd looks you will get from the public. I have been out in public in a pleated, denim skirt. Got a mix of reactions from a nice smile to an abject look of horror to a heckler yelling out "SKIRT" in a grocery store. I kind of enjoy it actually, but I have to be in the right frame of mind. Your mileage may vary!

Cheers,

[r1g0r]

hey simon...

there may not be a need for any conflict. you may try a skirt (or other items, as many of us do), and discover that the imagined thrill or satisfaction is greater than the real thing. simply said, you may wonder what the big deal was.

you may try the skirt (etc...) and be swept off your feet by the experience. this is the case with most of us here, otherwise we wouldn't be here. in this case, your gender identity expression may change. this is not inherently good or bad, just a change.

you won't know which way YOUR wind blows until you try skirts at least a few times. experiment in private, when you have plenty of time to immerse yourself in the experience.

then, with some frame of reference, you can try to come to some conclusion.

if you have any religeous feelings, maybe my philosophy will help: i am the way god made me, and he doesn't do things in error or without a reason. i am the way i'm supposed to be, or i'm getting there.

good luck on your journey, we are all here to lend advice if you need it!

[stylerunway18]

If this thing you always wanted to wear. I think it's not normal for a man but if you like it ocassionally, well it's ok...just for fun...

[CJFMix]

For many of us , wearing skirts and/or other fem garments , does not change what we are , what ever we wear , we're still guys !!!
And for the others , they feel transformed by the sensation of wearing theese garments ...

Personnaly , I suggest that you experiment whatever you feel like trying , and , with time (it can take years) , you'll be able to find out what you like and don't like , then , you will know where you stand concerning you gender's identity !!!

Be carefull with you outings in public , some people may not like what you do , but generally , depending where you live , nowadays people are more tolerant !!!

[Peter v]

... I can tell you, ALWAYS be true to your self!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No matter who you're married to, and no matter who you work with or recreate with.
.....

I see a fair number of postings in this spirit, basically saying, just do it, and they always make me a bit uneasy. While I agree that the biggest barrier for many of us is internal, yet I also feel that if someone feels a "stop" in themselves (to use a Quaker term), there may be good reasons to hesitate, even if nobody can explain what they are.

SkirtCafe is not the sort of place that is going to attract a lot of people who want to tell us the reasons not to wear a skirt. In the absence of such balancing voices, I fear that it might be possible here to get into a cheerleading mentality: "WEAR THAT SKIRT! WEAR THAT SKIRT! HARDER! HARDER!" I know that a football cheer in favor of skirts sounds silly, but some posts come awfully close to this.

A Personal Experience (only apparently OT):

For the most part, I tend to stubbornly resist all attempts to get me to do what I don't feel like doing, but sometimes I have let myself be pushed into something against what that little inner voice was saying. I remember one summer during college when my father talked me into selling soap door-to-door. The word "fiasco" does not do my experience justice. It says something about my father's powers of salesmanship that I rang doorbells around an entire block before re-realizing how ill-suited I was to any sort of sales job.


I guess I'm just asking us to give the doubters and hesitators a little space to find their way to wherever they need to go -- to skirt-wearing, or not.

I would add, that we regard ALL others, our wives and family as whole, compleet fully "evolved" or fully "grown up" ( Meaning not changing any more as was the case from child to adolessent to grown up) people, who are the persons they were meant to be, (by the creator or nature), if that is so, then what is wrong with us getting to the point where WE are also the persons WE were eventually "meant to really be" - OUR TRUE Selves.
Who is there to deny us that? Do we deny our children "" change""? Do we deny our wives the right to evolve, or ""change"" as it is called when we "change" to skirt wearing men? They get ALL the respect anybody would want, yet when it comes to ourselves, we seem to present ourselves as inferior and place ourselves at the mercy of others what they decide.

In so many storys I read this statement, that "I am carefully putting my wish to "Change to skirt wearing" to the board of directors and hope that they will be accord." Who do other people think they are to be boss over US? Or why do we talk so in our written peieces? We are nobodys slaves, yet we present ourselves as such.( by tghe way it is written)

I believe we should say I am who I am, and I am going along this path, follow me. This is all new to me, I don't want to go alone, come with me, We are in this together, come and join me on this "adventure" and see where it takes us.

I mean take a positive stand to your feelings. All the while respecting others feelings, emotions, but always standing up for ourselves.

We give ALL others the right to be who they are, our children, our family, our friends, and most closely our partners, why not ourselves?

Nobody is being pushed. But we seem to be over polite, over respectful, as if we are doing something totally wrong, and making it look as if other people have everything to say about what we want and do, but especailly over WHO we are.

It is not said that others actually do, but in the way that is written it looks so.

"would you mind if I took the car to the mall today?"
"I'm going to the mall in the car, see you later, or would you like to come too? "


"I think I may wear a skirt, do you mind?"
"I have finally seen the light, and am becomming my true self, join me and let us go through this together. "

Peter v.

[sapphire]

Unfortunately, there is a lot of hurtful baggage that still gets carried about where men and women deny their partners freedom of expression and deny that freedom to their children.

We know that is wrong, yet it does exist.

THere are societal pressures that are antiquated, but still push us, some of them purely illogical.

Tonight, Carl was wearing a skirt and I was wearing men's work boots. Carl was comfortable and so was I.

Why work boots? If you have followed the weather in the northeast US, you know that we were hit by a powerful storm. My boots are waterproof, warm and have a lug sole that helps keep me from slipping. They also come up high enough to serve as an ankle brace.

What else should I wear? My strappy, sequined high heeled sandals?

Peter, your point is well taken. All of us must have the freedom to be ourselves. While women have made strides, ALL of us have a long way to go.

Let's just support each other and each other's choices. Let's complain against the "system's" constraints, not fight each other and learn to be free to be who we are.

[Peter v]

Hallo Sapphire, yes, you are correct.

Do you have "strappy, sequined high heeled sandals?"
Nice.

They wouldn't work out there in the snow, but you sure would get looks!
(and cold feet)

If they could be seen.

Best regards,
peter v.

[sapphire]

Yes, indeed Peter, I do own strappy sequined high heled sandals. Obvious they are summer shoes and impractical for everything except going out to dinner. Actually, the straps aren't straps at all, but ribbons.

[Peter v]

Very nice, they are not for walking, are they? just for looking extra sexy. I suppose.

By the way, I'm walking on pumps with 8 cm high heels ( measured at the rear of the shoe, the last week, (and riding my bycicle with them) and after getting accustomed, ( slightly painful balls of the foot, ) I'm really hooked. But I must get a pair of standard shoes, for use with knee socks, as they are thicker than pantys, so I would think that I better not wear them with pumps.

I don't even think about having them on, so i don't watch if anybody is looking.

I myself am very glad I haven't stopped with only a manly skirt, as to venture away from the men's drab fashion inhibitations give practically limitless options, if the clothes fit that is.

No I'm not a travi, but bejond the simple exchanging of a pair of pants for a simple ""Manly"" skirt. Those who do that are still very "boxed in" in the men's fashion limitations, but that is OK.

I'm not "taking a walk on the wild side"as you may remember the song,
but am surely enjoying the fashion freedom, the abundance (at least until my finances dry up )

Wearing free fashion ( mostly women's fashions also means that i am constantly looking for other combinations than I have now. That was unimaginable when I was only wearing men's fashion. ( but that does have advantages, it is inexpensive, easy to choose from a small garderobe, and dresses up fast. ie no pantys etc. ) But I wouldn't want miss this. I should have started thirty years ago.

Sorry for the off topic.

Hope you can get out of your house! With all that snow!

Peter v.

[sapphire]

We can get out and have. We don't stay buried for long.

You are correct the sexy shoes are for show. You really can't walk very far in shoes like that. FOr now, I'm sticking with my "Granny Clampett" boots.

If you do not get the reference, there was a show in the early 1960s US tv called the Beverly Hillbillies. The matriarch of the clan wore Army boots