skirtcafe.org

This is really directed toward the women here, but anyone should feel free to answer.

What do you female friends think of the idea of men acquiring fashion choice?

This is an area I feel has not been explored. Most of my roomates friends loved how I looked in my chenongsam at her wedding, but were too shy to say so (which I find imeasureably sad).

Saphire, what do you female freinds think of your husband's styling?

Women's acceptance is the key I feel to men getting true fashion freedom.

Others agree?

Pythos,
I'm either the best person to ask or the worst, as I tend to gravitate towards college towns and artist communities.

Worcester, MA is a complex place. It is third largest city in New England. It is a college town, a working class town a town with a notorious areas of crime and prostitution. Wormtown (as its known) is ashamed of itself and proud of it, exit 3 on the highway to hell, the city that eats its young and the Paris of the Nineties

There are at lots of colleges and Universities in and around the city,:
The College of the Holy Cross (Ivy League)
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
The University of Massachusetts Medical School
The Massachusetts College of Pharmacy,
The Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University
Assumption College
Nichols College
Anna Maria College
Worcester State College
Becker College
Quinsigamond Community College
Worcester Crafts Center (a trade school)
Clark University
The Bancroft School of Massage Therapy

The area is richly multi ethnic with large recent African, VietNamese, Muslim, Greek, Albanian and Russian communities, complete with the traditional costumes of their native lands and religions.

Then there are the older Italian, Irish and Polish communities.

Oh, yeah and then there are the New Agers.

While you will not see many men in skirts, the sheer diversity of ethnic, intellectual, spiritual, sexual orientation, economic status, etc, etc, there is a great deal of acceptance of all that diversity.

That diversity becomes up front in your face on three occassions:

Mass at All Saints Episcopal Church at Pentecost. The congregation comes to Mass in the native garb of their home countries, simultaneously reading the scripture together, each in his or her native tongue.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr Community Breakfast. This event fills the convention center and honors the diversity of the city.

First Night: (New Year's Eve): Mardi Gras in New England

So as a retired college professor, every day I interacted with homeless students, addicted students, genius students, students that were teenaged parents, immigrant students who were also grandparents, and students of nearly every conceivable ethnicity and religion.

During Ramadan, I'd have sandwiches ready for my night class students.

I'd literally go from tutoring an ex-con homeless math student to having lunch at a private club in a mansion with the Board of Trustees.

Find your style (your may have several styles) and embrace it. Give yourself permission to express your style. You may run into some negativity, but I think for the most part I think you may find that you run into a wall of apathy.

Also, consider that you will get no support from women if they don't known about your styling preferences. You will have to start with a risk and talk to women about your fashion ideas and ask them for their recommendations for putting styles together for yourself. Ask for support.

But then again, I've spent decades in college towns and artists colonies. I even spent two years living in the woods studying ferns. I'm not exactly a whitebread suburban Mom, or even a typical working woman.

Pythos wrote: This is really directed toward the women here, but anyone should feel free to answer.

What do you female friends think of the idea of men acquiring fashion choice?

Most are in favour, but only up to a point. "No-Go" areas are definitely high-heels, frills & lace and make-up. I agree - which is probably why they are personally supportive.

Pythos wrote: Women's acceptance is the key I feel to men getting true fashion freedom. Others agree?

Do I agree? Basically, yes! I think it is the most vital element. It works both ways too. So many women these days are (or feel) 'pressured' into tr*user-wearing. They feel they have lost (or are losing) their clothing freedom, and, compared to, say, the Seventies, they are right! Genuine Public acceptance of male de-bifucation would benefit them equally.

I agree that awareness is important. I make a point of mentioning my love of men in skirts as often as possible without sounding like I'm some sort of commercial or evangelist, just because I do think it's very important to raise awareness and acceptance of fashion freedom for men.

I work with children, and I consider it a moral duty to expose them to the concepts of fashion freedom the same as I consider it a moral duty to expose them to the concepts of tolerance for religious differences, racial differences and every other sort of tolerance we espouse. Clothing differences are perhaps the simplest and most harmless sort of divider between us, yet they can engender so much ire! How much sweeter life would be if folks could just chill out a little and realize it's just a bit of cloth, for Heaven's sake, and not about to eat you alive.

So I keep a photo of Eddie Izzard on the front of my ViewBinder, and talk about him candidly and worshipfully as my hero to anyone who asks who he is. That gives me one chance to bring up the subject. It's a lot of fun to see little nine-year-old kids cringing and laughing when this grownup explains what a HUGE crush she has on a man in skirts, which so flies in the face of all their normal prejudices. And then I go all nine-year-old on them and start kissing the front of my binder like they do to theirs, and we all laugh and it shows them that we're all just people, and it's fun.

Oh my god Eddie I. is the man. He is the Ozzy Osbourne of comedy as far as I am concerned. Not only does he have an increadible taste in appearances, but his comedy is hilarious. I loved his outfits for sexie. Without the heels and breasts, I could totally wear that kinda style (hell even with the heels.)

Pythos wrote:
Women's acceptance is the key I feel to men getting true fashion freedom. Others agree?

Merlin wrote:
Basically, yes! I think it is the most vital element.

Gentlemen, I respectfully disagree.

The most important key to men's fashion freedom is men and their definition of their own sense of fashion freedom.

Women can not accept or support your fashion freedom choices if they have no clue as to what they are being asked to accept and support.

I urge you to define your style or styles, and talk about, ask for help, ask for input, ask for support.

Don't expect women to react to a vacuum. YOU need to take the first step.

Remember that this has to be a mutually supportive. YOU need to be as supportive of women's fashion choices as you want them to be supportive of yours.

sapphire wrote: Gentlemen, I respectfully disagree.

The most important key to men's fashion freedom is men and their definition of their own sense of fashion freedom.

I doubt if 199 out of every 200 even give (or have ever given) it a passing thought - or even care? And that's an optimistic view, I feel.

sapphire wrote:Women can not accept or support your fashion freedom choices if they have no clue as to what they are being asked to accept and support.

I think we can take that as read in the context of the original post, but, yes, that's a very important element to consider for those who feel the need to hide their clothing preferences from partners, etc.

sapphire wrote:

Merlin wrote: Basically, yes! I think it is the most vital element.

Remember that this has to be a mutually supportive. YOU need to be as supportive of women's fashion choices as you want them to be supportive of yours.

Now, you're quoting me out of context, methinks! In my qualification of that statement, I made the point of emphasising our support for our women-folk to withstand (very heavy) pressures to bi-furcate. My GP, a quite outspoken feminist for sure, nowadays rarely wears tr*users. As one who deals almost exclusively with female patients, she holds very strong views on the (ill-) health effects of tr*user (esp. + tights) wearing.

Saphire,

What I was getting at is that males in general are driven by one thing, and we know what that is. Present company here excluded.

Most men will not try or do anything they think both men and women would disprove of.

Ex. Men will fart and burp while watching football with their buds and make a complete stye of the living room, to the dissaproval of his wife or girlfriend. But since "the guys" don't mind, they do it.

If a guy tries on a skirt and is shunned by his wife or girlfriend, AND is ridiculed by his "buds", he will most likely never put another skirt on again, unless of course he has a stronger self image, and stands up for what he wears. Unfortunately a majority of men do not have such.

This is why at least for me, it would be great to have a suportive woman in my life who would tell my parent's she loves my style, and perhaps gets me skirts for christmas or birthdays to show the support, and tells my male friends to grow up.

Another example: I wore to one of my brother's parties a sweater/ leggings outfit. During the party while chatting with some guys about aviation, this big buff guy out of the blue said "how about next time, you wear pants instead of tights". Before I could say anything one of the ladies there who was walking by, tapped this idiot on the shoulder and said "I think he looks hot", this was joined by a chorus of women saying much the same thing. These were all grown married women, backing me up.

That big fool was put into his place by the most powerful thing to him. The threat of "no nookie for you tonight". The ladies were sincere. Though it was a bit embarrassing, it felt quite good.

Pythos wrote:Saphire, Another example: I wore to one of my brother's parties a sweater/ leggings outfit. During the party while chatting with some guys about aviation, this big buff guy out of the blue said "how about next time, you wear pants instead of tights". Before I could say anything one of the ladies there who was walking by, tapped this idiot on the shoulder and said "I think he looks hot", this was joined by a chorus of women saying much the same thing. These were all grown married women, backing me up.

Hallo Pathos, that's a modern style, at least over here, sweaters that are actually dresses, in mini skirt length. I love the look, and am thinking about it myself. Looks very comfortable and relaxed to wear. (and ""hot"")

Being "honest" in a skirt is important. Letting others see YOU, and being dressed pleasurably to the eye. As the whole buisness of dressing is to present YOURSELF. And not only your clothes. A pile of clothes is nothing without the person in it. Clothes should be an extension of your inner self.
And they give protection, of course.

Peter v ( man)

I take the view that if my friends don't like the way I dress they are not my friends

ziggy_encaoua wrote:I take the view that if my friends don't like the way I dress they are not my friends

My view is rather different; because my friends are friends it does not matter to me or to them whether they like the way I dress.

I suspect you meant to write something like: "If people let the way I dress come between them and me then they are not my friends."

Have fun,


Ian.

Milfmog wrote:

ziggy_encaoua wrote:I take the view that if my friends don't like the way I dress they are not my friends

My view is rather different; because my friends are friends it does not matter to me or to them whether they like the way I dress.

I suspect you meant to write something like: "If people let the way I dress come between them and me then they are not my friends."

Have fun,


Ian.

Very right, put a little different, but it is true. True friends don't let different tastes come between them.

It's not always easy to put words to paper and have it read with the desired effect. Some of us are handier in that than others. But WE do understand each other nonetheless.

"I take the view that if my friends don't like the way I dress they are not my friends" is of course a personal statement that may mean precicely that, which I can understand. "liking" the way your friends dress helps in the friendship, not liking it does it no good.

Peter v

Peter v wrote:

Milfmog wrote:

ziggy_encaoua wrote:I take the view that if my friends don't like the way I dress they are not my friends

My view is rather different; because my friends are friends it does not matter to me or to them whether they like the way I dress.

I suspect you meant to write something like: "If people let the way I dress come between them and me then they are not my friends."

Have fun,


Ian.

Very right, put a little different, but it is true. True friends don't let different tastes come between them.

Oh I don't know if I found out one of my friends actually liked the music of Phil Collins I'd drop them like that...we all have our limits

ziggy_encaoua wrote:Oh I don't know if I found out one of my friends actually liked the music of Phil Collins I'd drop them like that...we all have our limits

Ziggy,

We're talking fashion here, not social suicide! Phil Collins? That was uncalled for.

Have fun,


Ian.

PS: Note to Bob; please can we have an emoticon for being very very ill?