What makes a skirt masculine?

[Jack Williams]

Had a look at that video, and the woman looked lovely and the man great, but not skirted..
I think it all comes down to style. One can wear anything in my opinion as long as one has some STYLE!

[Ron]

[janrok]

Ron demonstrates how to make a skirt look masculine.

Jan.

[jamie001]

I believe that when we consider what makes a skirt masculine or feminine (or any other article of clothing for that matter), we are perpetuating and doing our best to reinforce the small box that men's fashion has been relegated to by society. Consider for a moment women incorporating men's items into the overall presentation. There are many articles in women's magazines and online blogs about women incorporating masculine items into their otherwise feminine presentation. It seems that most women don't really worry if the article that they are incorporating is "too masculine". If you don't believe me about this, do some google-ing of "women wearing men's clothing" and you will see some of these articles and get a feeling for the prevailing attitudes. Another example is nail polish for men. There are about half-dozen nail polish companies that are marketing nail polish to men. The problem is that the men's nails polish is limited to colors of black, brown, blue, or gray! Again this approach is limiting and even though men may wear men's nail polish, it is perpetuating the fashion prison that has been established for men. Color has no gender!! If color has a gender, and the aforementioned colors are "men's colors", then women should not be wearing black, brown, blue, gray nail polish on their fingernails or toenails. Do you see how masculinization of these products such as nail polish is very limiting to men in regards to breaking out of the fashion prison? Women don't follow these silly rules, why should men follow them? Men should just purchase nail polish that has been typically marketed to women in whatever colors that they like, including bright red and hot pink. There is no need for male nail polish companies because they are just playing on male insecurities and perpetuating the male fashion prison.

I don't believe in the masculine/feminine concepts that have been expressed and perpetuated by many men including some men on this site because of their limiting nature. On the other hand, I firmly believe that the cut of a garment such as a skirt or dress must be considered. In other words, if the skirt or dress is flattering to the man's body, they he should wear it regardless of whether it is marketed to men or women. Skirts and dresses could and should be designed to be more form flattering to the male body, however, there is a big problem with this approach. If a skirt manufacturer were to take this approach and make the skirt/dress more form flattering to the male body(a male skirt), they would unfortunately take it one step farther and limit to colors to the drab male color palette as I describes for the nail polish colors in the previous paragraph of this post. That is the problem in a nutshell! I believe that what we need is form flattering clothing for males in the same colors and fabrics that are available for women. I believe that we all have the ability to become part of the solution or part of the problem by what we tell the manufacturer. Unfortunately the average Joe on the street is so insecure regarding the macho program that has been passed-down from generation to generation that he will never venture out of the drab color palette and limited clothing choices that are available to men. Consequently, the clothing manufacturers will not create new styles and colors since those product will only appeal to a very small segment of the population.

[skirtingtheissue]

Very well said, Jamie. I agree. So what we need to do is "walk the walk" as much as possible, search out "form flattering clothing for males in the same colors and fabrics that are available for women" e.g. skirts from the women's section, wear pink nail polish if it suits you, and show the world that ordinary guys can do such things.

I suspect that for-profit companies and people having too-conventional wisdom resist suggesting or marketing pink nail polish or flowy skirts for men because they would then be accused of targeting true crossdressers. We have to keep educating the world that "men in skirts" and "male fashion freestylers" are not the same as crossdressers.

But in the interest of incremental change, I think there is a place for "masculine color" nail polish and masculine style kilts. I'd rather see a guy in a black Utilikilt or Tartan kilt, wearing blue nail polish, than wearing pants and unadorned nails.

[Ron]

well I don't follow the sheepople herd and I do like bright colors

[pleated]

(snip)
Unfortunately the average Joe on the street is so insecure regarding the macho program that has been passed-down from generation to generation that he will never venture out of the drab color palette and limited clothing choices that are available to men. Consequently, the clothing manufacturers will not create new styles and colors since those product will only appeal to a very small segment of the population.

I agree wholeheartedly with your entire analysis, Jamie, but would have to add-
On the subject of macho programing - not only is it the one passed down "from generation to generation", it is ongoing. What I am referring to is the amount of "in-your-face" war porn churned out by the film industry where all social, global (and even hyperspace!) problems are portrayed as being solvable by a "strong man" with limitless military hardware.

[Jack Williams]

Good to see you here Ron.

[skirtilator]

Practicability adds a decent amount of masculinity to a skirt. The pocket should best not be integrated, because that would limit them to light weight stuff. Durakilt has got a good solution to it, floating pockets attached to a belt or D-rings on the belt loops. Doggy ear cargo pockets work aswell. The atoms in the fabric got a penis, a six pack and love to watch sports, that ensures masculinity.

[rainbow]

I have a couple of thoughts on this - and from a female perspective.

As a woman who is frustrated by the limitations of gender specific clothing, I find clothes fit into 2 categories for gender.

Masculine clothes have an inherent practicality and functionality.
Pockets, stronger construction, and better design for active people.

Feminine clothes are restricting and limiting, and often impractical - false pockets, thin fabrics and shoddy construction, however they are very varied in types and colours of fabrics, which is great.

That is my personal experience.

I would like to see less gender specific clothing, where the emphasis was on the practicality, and also on the beauty of the clothing - the Arts and Crafts movement was about usefulness and beauty.

My ideal for myself would be something along the lines of a utility kilt/skirt and waistcoat/jacket combination with plenty of pockets.

I really feel for a lot of the men on here who have to face opposition and sometimes physical and mental abuse for wearing garments they feel comfortable in merely because small minded people would like to put everyone into a box and stifle difference and individuality.

Our individuality should be celebrated.

I have never really identified with a lot of "female" clothing due to my height being a long way above average 5 foot 11, so I often wore "men's" clothing, and all women (and men) are not built the same. With narrow hips and big shoulders I have a less "feminine" shape than the "average" woman - women's clothing often did not fit and looked ridiculous on me.

Trousers for men fit me properly, and had the additional benefit of lots of pockets. I found women's shoes baffling - seemingly designed to restrict and limit movement, and many styles horribly uncomfortable to wear, not to mention too small, and with size 8 feet I do not have unusually large feet, but a lot of women's shoes stopped at 7 and to be honest, as I have been informed by several shoe shop assistants - "ladies shoes aren't designed to be walked in"

However the problem with men's shoes is the limited colour palette of browns and blacks.

On the whole what makes a skirt masculine? I would say that there is nothing for me more masculine than a man in a skirt as it shows confidence and a strong character, and the courage to be different. And that would go particularly for a skirt that challenged gender identity, so bright colours or florals, or shiny materials with lots of ornamentation, fabrics with a lot of texture ie corduroy, velvet or tapestry, and soft fabrics with a lot of drape.

Let's not forget the peacock - it is only relatively recently that men have been restricted to a drab and limited palette of colours, and plain clothing with little ornamentation. It would be wonderful to see men who were more adventurous in their look, and in the colours and patterns that they wore.

Masculine features however would be for me - belt loops, pockets, strong construction, perhaps in a wool suiting or canvas, denim, tartan, camouflage. abstract patterns or solid colours. Skirt length would be knee length or longer, for reasons of modesty, however I would wear tights or leggings under a short skirt. I often wore this combination because the mini was the only skirt that did not look like it was the wrong length.

[skirtingtheissue]

Thanks for your perspective, rainbow… nice to have a woman's point of view!

Our individuality should be celebrated.

YES.

[DonaldG]

Great post Rainbow and welcome to this forum. I too value practicality in clothing. Mostly I wear cargo or jeans type skirts. I have a few skirts with no pockets or belt loops, which I wear only occasionally because of that.

I prefer cargo skirts to shorts, because the pockets in shorts always seem to be at knee-level, painful when walking with anything heavy in them.

As you say though, practical garments only seem to be available in drab colours. Bring on the aztek print cargo skirt please!

Donald.

[Big and Bashful]

It's great to see a woman's perspective back on the forum, welcome!

[rainbow]

Thank you - what a great welcome!

I will also add that the only bag I have ever had where the bag is still usable and in great condition inside and out, is a "man bag" I bought from M&S, which cost £10.99. The lining is the most robust I have ever seen in a bag.

It seems to me that women are constantly short changed on quality and utility and men are constantly shortchanged on colour and texture.

I have never been able to understand the strict gender division that seems to apply to clothing and the open hostility that you can experience as both men and women when straying outside these gender lines.

Getting back to the discussion on masculine and feminine skirts - where would other members say the line is drawn on fabrics? Could say a chiffon or satin ever be seen as masculine? Or a brocade? Highly ornamented fabrics were seen as the male preserve once upon a time - I am thinking of Regency period clothes for the upper classes, where satins and brocades were all the rage.

What about corduroy or velvet - I have always seen corduroy as a masculine fabric - especially heavier cords. Also what about the more decorative tweed fabrics?

[crfriend]

Getting back to the discussion on masculine and feminine skirts - where would other members say the line is drawn on fabrics? Could say a chiffon or satin ever be seen as masculine? Or a brocade? Highly ornamented fabrics were seen as the male preserve once upon a time - I am thinking of Regency period clothes for the upper classes, where satins and brocades were all the rage.

What about corduroy or velvet - I have always seen corduroy as a masculine fabric - especially heavier cords. Also what about the more decorative tweed fabrics?

The overwhelming preference for material here seems to be for denim. However, being the contrarian I am, I entirely eschew the stuff instead preferring softer materials and materials which drape and move well. Both of the latter qualities are a big -- and I mean big -- win for me in the area of comfort.

The above having been said, I have a large variety of skirts in everything from taffeta to velvet, two of my waistcoats are brocade on the front, and I have at least one silk blouse.

I find the ultimate extravagance to be silk; this is a fabric that all guys should take a go at once in their lives. Velvet comes in a close second, drapes wonderfully and is extremely comfortable to wear. The two taffeta skirts I have are spectacular to look at and very flashy -- especially as they're bold "jewel-tone" colours (blue and ruby-red), but somewhat heavy which limits their use to the cooler months. Then there's my jet-black floor-length black pleated satin maxi.

I don't have anything in a chiffon, but some of my very lightweight summer skirts are almost a gauze-like rayon which are also very comfortable garments (although a slip is definitely required for modesty).

It's true that these may not be the most practical garments going, but if I know that I'm going to have to be in a practical mode I'll dress accordingly -- and sometimes that means trousers, but not always.